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Truck dies when warm

Discussion in 'Daihatsu Hi jet' started by jody, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Hello Moose, curious about any progress you might have made? I finally got my plugs installed and still waiting for the tune up kit to arrive. Replaced all fuel hoses and the fuel filter too. Seems to be running noticeably better, but still has a temperamental idle. I took the time off from that work to build a rear bumper this weekend. Isn't near about as pretty as some of the ones I see here, but it is certainly functional and will do the trick.
     
  2. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    Have you checked the coolant passages in the carb..2 small hoses (1 in and 1 out) the tubes are small diameter and if the coolant doesn't flow through them properly the choke will not operate properly either...
     
  3. jody

    jody Member

    HI. Does the truck surge when idle. Mine did. Found out it was the small vacuum hose on the fuel pump had a pin hole in it. Just a thought.
     
  4. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Morning people! First the coolant question. I am not sure of the best way to check it. So what I did to verify coolant flow through it is to feel the hoses and other parts that I feel would get hot if there was coolant flow. And it does get hot so there is flow. But the question remains is there always flow? It seems like there would be flow even when cool and after it warms up it would then move something to compensate. Just not sure if that final movement is being done. Side note on that. I just read a write-up you did a few years back on adjusting the carb. Even though I watched that you-tube video countless times, I believe I got something out of the write up that I didn't get from the video. Gonna print it out and have it in front of me this weekend when I attack it again. Question for yall. (Louisiana term for "you guys") Should the choke flapper swing open when running cold? This one does. Seems logical since all that air is being sucked in, but not sure. Now for the surge question. It does do that at times. But not consistently. It sometimes idles low when cold, and at other times it races when cold. I've bounced around the 2 adjustments (Cold adjusting screw and the throttle flapper screw) and it seems to help. But never perfect. Bright side is it doesn;t seem to be killing as readily as it used to. I have replaced every vacuum hose that I could find. Maybe I missed the one on the fuel pump. Gonna revisit that tonight when I get home. I finally got a low range pressure gauge and at least while I had it tee'd in it stayed around 3 to 4 pounds of pressure. Might have cured any fuel delivery problems by replacing the filter and hoses. I noticed that when I removed the gauge from the system that there was pressure on the line between the carb and the pump. (Gas just kept coming out). removed the fuel filler cap and it depressured and the gas stoped coming out. I know there is a spillback from the pump to the tank for vapors, but should the tank pressure up like that? Wasn't hot outside at the time and I had just filled it with fresh gas. Maybe it was just vapor off of the gas inside the tank since I only had a couple of gallons in it.
     
  5. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    the choke flap should open with throttle position...as you manually push the throttle on the carb you should see the linkage arm that allows the choke plate to open as the throttle opens..if the choke flap doesn't open wide enough when the throttle is depressed you will get poor performance and an over rich mixture,but that will only be evident while driving and will have nothing to do with idle. The coolant lines to the carb may feel warm on both ends but that may just be heat moving up the coolant lines on the down side ,and not actually indicate flow. Pull both coolant hoses from the carb and blow them out(blow out the carb coolant passage not the hoses themselves..just a clarification if necessary) with low pressure compressed air or a garden hose. A cheap vacuum gauge will be able to pinpoint a vacuum leak,timing issue,valve adjustment, etc. very quickly and accurately..will eliminate a lot of guesswork

    There should be some pressure in the tank after running a while but should go away after sitting..the pressure and fumes should bleed out to the charcoal canister and then to the carb to be burned while running...could be a faulty one way vacuum valve on the tank vent lines..overfilling the fuel tank can cause charcoal canister issues..when the fuel tank is filled up into the filler neck there is no where for expansion to take place in the tank and raw fuel is forced into the charcoal canister where only fumes should be. A clogged canister can't vent the gasses through it into the carb. because the charcoal inside is meant to filter fumes ..raw fuel will turn the charcoal to sludge and wash into the vacuum valve clogging it up. That leads to overpressurization of the fuel tank and poor fuel flow. The pump is trying to pump gas to the carb. and the excess back to the tank. When the tank is over pressurized the flow can't return to the fuel tank properly and may lead to flooding of the carb. All kinds of nastiness from overfilling a fuel tank can happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  6. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    So is it safe to assume that if the throttle and plate configuration is wrong to begin with then it could be upsetting the choke setting? It (the choke flapper) is closed to begin with but flies open when first started up. Removing those coolant lines at least for me is best left for the weekend when I have time to take pics as I am disassembling it. Meanwhile I will use your write-up to make my preliminary adjustments and see where that takes me. I am really curious to know if I have both solenoids on that carb. The wires coming from the green plug (3 of them) split up at the carb. I can see the pair that goes to the low speed shut off but can't see the other end of the third wire. Might go to a speed limiter, don't know. Also, there is not a speed sensor at the end of the speedo cable, but I do see what appears to be the little black box behind the glove box. Got me on edge that maybe someone tried modifying it and didn;t do it right. Definitely did not overfill the gas tank, and it had only run less than 5 minutes when I removed that gauge and found the leak. But, you now have me wondering about that charcoal canister. When I replaced the fuel lines I found one of the ones attached to the canister was plugged up with mud. This is the black thing immediately forward of the tank. Now I wonder if maybe the canister is toast as well... BTW, if I hadn't thanked you yet for your time and help I want to do that now. Really would be way behind the curve if not for that.
     
  7. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    Anytime...I am jammed with work recently and only have a second or 2 to peek in on the forum now and then... you'll pass on everything you learn ..by the time you get it running you'll have info for us as well :)
     
  8. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Yup. The info on this forum is priceless as is the help freely offered by the good people that choose to offer their knowledge. I know im greatly appreciative of the help I've received and all the good info kept safe for us all to access. Thanx from me as well!!! I've been a bit busy with life and work so Havnt been able to get on line for a while. My choke override i made worked great to get me running and testing. I think I've got.my choke set.close enough to be left alone while i try and figure out the other problem with the carb. My choke was the issue. The little plastic gear was not moving freely with the other plastic piece attached to the back side of it on the post. Literally there was a tiny metal sliver stuck inside it that was jamming it up. Would never have found it if it hadn't poked my finger while trying to feel what was going on Haha. Now just to figure out why it idles nice and runs great at 3/4 throttle but from 1/5th throttle to 3/4 it acts like ya shut the key off. Most likely something plugged up inside the carb. Fun times ahead Haha. Once i get that done i can start looking for the tallest lift i can get so the truck can actually be driven on the trails up here. Woo hoo Hahaha. Glad to see your truck is coming along nicely
     
  9. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Morning Everyone! Question...in the area of the choke actuator where the white toothed assembly is found, there is a coiled spring that attaches to a small arm directly connected to the choke flapper shaft. if the choke goes to wide open for whatever reason, that spring can (and has) easily disconnect from the small arm. I am wonderig if someone made an "adjustment" on that spring because it just doesn't seem right. Comes off of the arm too easily. Another thing I noticed is that that shaft does not fit real tight in the hole in the side of the carb that it goes through to move the flapper. Has a little free play. Does any of this make sense? On a positive note, my sons and I finally did something entertaining to it and installed the stereo. I did take someone elses idea and just built a box on the floor forward of the shifter and put the speakers there. Music!
     
  10. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    The choke return spring not staying attached will definitely effect the idle...and if it pops off after full throttle the choke flap won't close properly...the shaft being loose could also cause a slight vacuum leak that will effect idle speed,but not as much as the spring...once the spring is fixed try a dab of grease on each side of the choke flap shaft and see if there is air being sucked in there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  11. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Good idea with the grease. Wish I would have thought of that! :) As for the spring, I think I will have to make an "adjustment" to keep it from coming off. Gonna take a bunch more pics and then remove it from the carb. Kind of apprehensive, but hey.. somebody assembled it so it should be easy enough to reassemble. As I said in an earlier post, carb is a 4 letter word to me. Would also make it easier to access the shaft to apply the grease.
     
  12. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Haha nice. Ya sound like me. I get tired if trying to figure out what im working on and add more to.my plate Hahaha. I was in the same boat as you man. I did not want to pull the carb at first. But i did. Now i pull it and put it back without even wondering where a vacuum line goes Haha. There are some good threads on here about carb tuning. I've read them a bunch of times but don't remember if they talk about how to set the preload on the choke spring. Im sure they do i just am no help other than its in one of them. Sorry bud. Good luck to ya. Oh by the way i also added a stereo to mine and one speaker on the floor and one up top middle of the rear window. I think i over did it a bit though cause its a bit way too loud and sounds great somehow Hahaha
     
  13. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Good information, thanks Moose. I can picture most of what you said because yesterday evening when I got home I pulled the assembly that holds the white toothed spindle and tension spring off. My intention at the time was to bend it as necessary to make it stay on that arm and make the choke shaft more accessible so as to create a grease seal like Fupabox suggested. After I pulled the spindle off it occurred to me that maybe the thing jumped a tooth or two and that, like you said, there would not then be enough tension from the spring to keep the choke plate stationary as it should be. I never got it all back together cause my youngest one was hounding me about going to Academy to "Look around" whatever that means. Hope to finish reassembly tonight. And like you said, I took a lot of pics. Mostly for re-assembly, but partly cause I can bring it to work and get a good closeup look at how it works. It is still unclear to me how the choke actuator comes into play. By looking at the pics I will know if that is even still attached. As for the radio, my loud music days are well behind me. Lol. But my kids really think it is cool to be able to ipod their music through the mini truck. Even though it hasn;t left the driveway yet. :) Congrats again on the accomplishment. You're giving me hope.
     
  14. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Hahaha yea my loud music days are over as well. I was trying to hint at that without actually saying it when i said it hurt my head Hahaha. I don't know much about these trucks other than not to let it beat me. Keep bugging along. Try whatever you think will work and eventually you will figure it out. I think that they went way overboard on engineering the choke on these though Hahaha. I still don't know what the parts and pieces are called Hahaha. I do know that the top vacuum actuater open the choke a bit when ya hit the gas and that the hot water from the engine somehow melts some wax and pushes a rod that in turn opens the choke. I also know that my choke isn't adjusted right but works. Hahaha. Ill get it. I just have moves on to other things for a bit. I have to be able to fix SOMETHING before i get frustrated Hahaha good luck man
     
  15. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Morning! So I got home yesterday pretty eager to get the plastic gear/spring assembly reinstalled. Before that I greased the choke shaft. Man that thing has some play! Sure that is why the spring tends to come off when at the far aft (Non-choked) position. I made a minor redesign of the spring to keep it from doing that, and used as much common sense I could find to understand the reasoning behind the design. You said a mouthfull when you called it over-engineered. But, I have to assume they did what they had to do. Either way I have to work with what I have. Wife would agree. :) I got it mostly put back together and adjusted the choke flapper position per Fupa's instructions. It seems to operate smooth enough. At one point there was some sticking but I believe I could blame that on the flapper itself overtraveling. Because of the play in the shaft it was able to move pass the stop in the throat. This could be a problem for me, but for now I will try it as is. I am like you and I am not sure what they call the different parts, but I am pretty sure that the choke actuator is the piece with the two vac hoses going to it and a center adjustment. Either way, I verified it does move the flapper. Not a whole lot, but then again I don't know how much movement is expected. Very much afraid i will ahve to pull the carb, and if I do I will address the play in that shaft. Did you have gaskets to replace when you pulled yours?
     
  16. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Nope. When i pulled my carb i had just planned on refusing the gaskets. But in the process of using a can oe two of carb cleaner my gasket art of disappeared Haha. I just made one from some gasket material. But make sure ya take a picture of the gasket so you know how the gasket goes and if there is a hole in it where it goes as well. I think i sent you a message on here too......can't remember. Hahaha. Those two hoses you mentioned that go to the actuater. Those have coolant in them. Not vacuum. As the engine warms up the coolant gets hotter and melts some wax inside the actuater and that allows ur choke to open. Mine has 4 coolant lines going to th carb. Unreal. Haha
     
  17. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Looking forward to a little carb education this weekend! Actually, I did a lot of work since I last ran it. Which in general is not a wise way to approach troubleshooting. Before I do anything else I will make the final carb adjustments and see where it takes me. I'll let you know how it goes! Wish I knew more about the wax thing too.
     
  18. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Right on. Ill be anxiously waiting Haha. Don't forget....if you Havnt changed your vacuum lines just trim a half to 3/4 inch off each end and plug em back in. TJATS way you know all of them are sealed up good. I've actually had a few engines give me problems that i couldn't figure out because a couple vacuum lines had gotten loose enough to leak a little. Add 2 or 3 or 4 of those little leaks together and ya have one good leak
     
  19. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Okay. So I got home and finished connecting the linkage. Left the pipe betweent the filter and the carb inlet off so that I could watch the choke flapper. Cranked it up and man it ran good. Never made any more adjustments beyond what Fupa recommended. Ran like that for 5 minutes then it died. By the way one of the first things I did when I got the truck was replace every vac hose I could find. One at a time and tagged each new one so I would know I didn;t miss any. Before it died I noticed and heard a sort of popping coming out the exhaust and what could have been condensate dripping too. When it would pop it was like a burst of pressure almost. didn't have time before it died to try and collect a sample of the liquid. Wouldn't start back up for a half hour or so. When it did start I moved it back into my shop with the expectation that I would pull the carb off this weekend. But...recently a work buddy had to replace his catalytic converter. The symptoms were that it ran very bad at idle. His was plugged up. Now I am wondering if maybe there is something going on in the exhaust system. Before I tackle the carb I will remove the plugs and see if there is any evidence of fouling. They are all new so it should be evident. If not then I might take a hard look at the exhaust system. Actually was looking forward to tackling the carb. But I don;t want to if I don;t have to. Back of mind tho is the thought that my problem is one of the two solenoids. I believe that I have both of them on my carb even though I don;t have a speed sensor at the transmission. Pretty sure I have the little black box behind the glove box. All that makes me wonder if it was modified, but not completely. I checked voltage and there is 12 Volts on both wires going to each solenoid at least at the green plug. But when I unplug them it doesn't seem to affect how it is running. Do you know if there is always voltage there when the key is on?
     
  20. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    there should only be voltage with the key on...the solenoid cuts fuel supply with the key off to prevent dieseling/flooding...if you unhook the exhaust at the downpipe (2 spring loaded bolts at the swivel joint) you will be able to quickly see if the exhaust is causing your running issue,and it very well could be the problem..my stock exhaust looked great from the outside but the muffler had collapsed internally and was partially blocked
     
  21. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Okay, makes sense. Obvious next step with the carb is to put a known "always-hot" 12 volt sourse to both solenoids, i.e. straight from the battery. That would divide the potential problem in half. Should be easy to to. The downpipe? Relative to the manifold it would be pretty close to it, meaning between the manifold and the next item in the pipe? Not sure if the next item is the Cat converter or the muffler. For the purpose of discussion guess it doesn't matter. I have no personal need for the converter so all I need is a good reason to remove it. Probably at that point will also replace the muffler with something super quiet. Good feeling here that might be on to something.
     
  22. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Hello All! New week. I cut off the muffler and everything aft of it. It seems to have gotten rid of the puffing, but it still kills after 5 minutes. I also replaqced the Distributor Cap, plug wires (Not Coil wire cause I was sent the wrong set), and the Rotor. Little uncomfortable with that because now it seems I have this little miss that I didn;t notice before. Maybe I didn;t notice it because the muffler was muffling it, I don;t know. But the cap seemed to not fit as well but I eventually got it on without forcing it. Maybe that rubber o'ring was interfering. I need to revisit that. Next step is to cut off the Catalytic converter and see if it continues killing. I drove it around a little and I was able to keep it running but not without some effort. Still don;t think it is electrical because i have fire all the way until it stops turning. And it runs fine when cold, a soon as the warm choke kicks in it begins running bad then dies. Also, I pulled the Idle Cutoff solenoid and verified it moves with 12 volts on it. Which it does. But boy that thing gets hot. 2 questions; When I put the solenoid back on the carb I only screwed it in a few turns with the theory that that would bypass it and not block fuel flow. Is that theory flawed? If not then I can rule out that the idea that the solenoid is interupting flow. Second question. When I cut off the Catalytic Converter, I will then have that sensor mounted on the converter hanging dead-ended. Any ideas on what to do with it? Thanks!
     
  23. jwicker

    jwicker Member

    splauchs,

    I'm eagerly watching your thread for that miraculous post that says you fixed it.
    (I'm cheering for you)

    I, too, have some very similar carb issues with my 1994 S110P.
    Runs great when the choke is on, but tends to idle down and die not long after the choke comes off.
    After my last tinkering session, it ran and even idled fine for approximately 20 minutes, but failed to start at all after I shut it off (convinced it was fixed) and it had been sitting for ~1 hour.

    Good luck.
    If you want to OM me, we can compare Notes.

    thanks
    jw
     
  24. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Hello JW, Welcome to the forum from a new member (Jan 2013). Bad as this might sound it is good to know there are others out there experiencing the pain I am. A good pain though. lol. Notice that I am not the one who initiated this thread so there are others out there. This forum's been great and has been a windfall I didn;t expect when I joined. Hope you get as much out of it as I have in the few months I've been a member. So, your tinkering session sounds like progress I haven't had. Do you maybe know the one thing that got it to run until you shut it down? I am not a fuels/carb kind of guy and Fupabox's YouTube video REALLY helped me understand what I had. You probably have seen it but if not I highly recommend it. 5 minutes or so long. But it has an hour of info in it. :) I haven;t initiated an IM yet that worked but I will hopefully today give it a shot. Does your 110 have the speed limiter on it? That is another strong possibility being my problem. Problem for me is I have to remove the carb to get to that solenoid, and even though I've been told by others not to fear, I am trying everything else before I do that. Hence the Catalytic converter. I won;t loose anything at all by taking it out so I will do that as soon as I get my hands on a reciprocating saw. Between cutting out the muffler with the high speed grinder and a hack saw I seriously put a dent in my religion. Got to make up for that. lol. Steve
     
  25. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Hahahahaha wow ya sound like me. Splauchs your carb problem sounds just about like mine did. Let me know when ya pull that carb od and open the top. Im curious to see if yours has the same plunger set up as mine. Mine was stuck at the top. Any way that 02 censor is no big deal. Just drill a hole in the exhaust pipe and screw it back in. We do that all the time here. We have no emission laws so not too many catalytic converters on older rigs Hahaha good luck
     
  26. jwicker

    jwicker Member

    Mine will run as long as the choke-off-idle speed is high.
    Once the choke comes off, if the idle speed is 'normal', I either have to feather the gas pedal or manually push the choke-on linkage to put the choke back on.
    It won't start with the choke off and for some reason now, after our last tinkering session, the choke doesn't set on its own.
    That's the reason it just cranked over and over.
    Once I pushed the choke on, it fired right up.

    I have seen Fupabox's Youtube video and agree that there is a wealth of knowledge in it.
    I just wish I knew how to apply what I saw in the video.
     
  27. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Hello there Moose! How u? Yes, you can see that i am still hesitating pulling the carb. Might tackle it this weekend if I make it past the cat converter. Are the two bolts you remove to pull the carb accessed from the left side of the truck??? Kind of looked around some to prepare myself and they weren't obvious to me. And there are only 2 right? You mentioned the plunger, is that the thing you mentioned earler that you accessed by pulling the plate with the 4 screws holding it on? Once I take the thing off I will learn everything I can about it before I reinstall it. I tried to get my big head in there to take a closer look at the wire going to the overspeed solenoid (If there is indeed one). Could only see with one eye but it looked to me like that wire was pinched between 2 parts. Seems like if it was shorted then it would never run, and would in fact blow a fuse. But, the only way I will know is by pulling the carb. I am also looking to replace the muffler that I cut off. Looking for something quiet, very quiet. Gonna keep the heat exchanger for the carb air intact and replace everything aft of it. JW, I am sure you have seen this mentioned over and over again, but I'll repeat. Pay close attention to that spring and white toothed mechanism. All kind of potential for issues in that area. But hey, you got it started again! Always a good sign.
     
  28. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Yea i really didn't want to pull my carb either but i finally did. I was so happy after. Wasn't as big a deal as i had made it to.be in my head and i found out a few more.connections on it Hahaha. The two bolt that hold it on go in from the air filter side. One on either side on mine. I cheated a bit. I took the access plate out of the bed and, in my truck, the drivers seat out. Then i took about 50 pictures with my phone. Every angle. Every hose. Every connection. Oh before i did all that i took tiny little blue zip ties. Blue was all i had that small but worked out well because they showed up real.nice in the pictures. Any way. I put the zip ties on the vacuum lines to mark them. If there were 5 lines in a row i would put ties on 4 of them. 1 on the first. 2 on the second. And so on. Didn't take long and i only used about 10 total. That plunger thing is under that plate on top with the 4 screws. Remember there is about a 4 or 5 inch long spring under that cover!! If your not ready it will.pop out and get ya Hahaha. After all that its easy. I Havnt tackled my cat yet. I know i need to though. I just got my.timing belt the other day but life and work aren't letting me play with my toy yet Hahaha. Good luck. Message me if ya want and ill give ya my number

    Jwicker hey bud if you go to my post "respecting a 1994 suzuki carry" i think.....any way if ya go there i think you will see that i had almost the exact same problem. On the side of your carb where the plastic gear is there are two springs on the same post.one hooks onto the butterfly and the other you won't even know.is there till.you take that gear piece.off. If the two.pieces don't move freely you will have issues. The spring you can see might loose tension and come off the part that it rides in to.close the choke. Just a thought. Also basically the same thing i was just talking about up above. I got lucky. When i got the truck i drained my tank. Flushed it. Then the lines then the carb then i filled the tank.with brand new premium fuel with a bunch of sea foam in it. Then i soaked the whole.carb with sea foam inside and out and went from there. Good luck to ya both. Im hoping to be able.to work on mine again before.my rims get here for.my tires Hahaha
     
  29. splauchs

    splauchs Member

    Hey Gentlemen, Yesterday I cut off the Cat Converter and not a big surprise but it didn't fix my problem. Not a big deal since I was gonna take it off anyway. There is a sizable buildup of carbon inside the remaining pipe, so at some point it ran really rich. Put new plugs in this past weekend so maybe I'll pull them and see if my adjustments made it better or worse. Saturday I have to go pick up a boat, but as soon as I can I will tackle the carb. That is the last thing it can be as I see it. Moose, do I understand you correctly when u said that there are two bolts holding it on and that you access them from the carb air inlet end? And one on each side of the throat? I was actually looking for them closer to the manifold so I guess that is why I didn't see them. I already have the access cover and seats out with 1000 pics, but hey, what's 1000 more right? lol. My biggest concern is as u mentioned the vacuum lines. I'll have my trusty wife taking pics as I remove them too. Sure she wouldn;t mind getting up at 5AM for that. Right! Hold my breath. :)
     
  30. muddy moose

    muddy moose Member

    Haha Yup. Throat side. On either side of it. You can get a white paint pen and just put a dot on each line. Adding a dot for each hose you mark. Then take a pic before ya pull it off. Might be easier than my zip tie method Hahaha. Oh yea by the way......thanx a lot bud.........now im getting ready to cut my cat off sooner than i was planning Hahaha. Ill do that while im doing the timing belt. That way when i want to curse and throw tools i can work on something else Hahaha
     

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