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Super Charger Build

Discussion in 'Performance' started by spaner, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Really that blows and I thought you had it kicked go figure sorry spaner
  2. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Control and understanding jonny; people skills...

    My mission this week, will be to bring the truck over to the rebuilders', and convince them, that this is a problem, a shortcoming; on their part. (a failure, but not stated as such)

    Then remove, repair, and reinstall.

    If all else fails, I'll just have to park it with the BAT terminal disconnected.

    All is understood, HOmmm, people are @ssholes, HOmmm;
    Works fine while driving. Parked, HOmmm...

    They fracked-up, but you can't say that. You have to say...
    The part, they did a GREAT JOB of installing that, but it was faulty from the manufacturer...OK...:rolleyes:
    The installation was 100%, the best job ever. It was the "other-guy" that fracked-up.
    The supplier, or even, maybe the factory in China...Yea, that's it, China. They always make shitty parts...

    Then everybody is happy.

    Also, I promise to reduce my carbon footprint...:cool:

    "Sh!t, NOW, that's on-the-house" man...:sly:
  3. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Good luck with your goal. The hommmmmm stuff does not work here I almost went postal on the guy that was to but in the power steering when he said he wouldn't do it no room.:mad::frustration: then I just said whatever I know someone who will give me my key.:sly: and left. Like I didn't already size it up and know how little room there is I drive the thing. Anyways back to the point.

    Good plan blaming the part and not their work I'm sure their work was great but its only as good as the parts they us so they should fix it at no cost if you ask me. Well unless you put a ton of miles on it which I'm sure you didn't. But as long as it runs or can be fixed I'm sure you will find away you have so far.
  4. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member


    I was there this week to let THEM sort out the problem. I even learned something...

    First, I just let them do their thing while the truck was @ idle. "Looks good", he says..."That unit is charging great!" he says, after a little idle time, and some rev-ups. "YUP", I says, "You guys did a great job rebuilding that alternator"..."It has never worked better, and I'm even thinking of adding a few extra lights, cu'z it's really putting out the AMPS"...;) (pat on the back...)

    "Just one problem though", I says..."If I park it for 48hr, the battery is completely drained, and it won't even crank over; not to mention start"...:(

    "Ho" he says..."That is a problem"...
    Then I go through the whole spiel again about the .45 AMP draw between the neg bat post and the neg bat connector; while the engine is OFF. I describe my whole testing procedure, then, he does something that I never even considered...:sly:

    He pulled ALL the fuses out of the fuse block; every one of them. Then did an AMP draw test..."0.601 AMP"...

    "Can't be nothing else" he says..."That alt has to be shorted in some way"...:eek: "Something in there is not right"

    "OK", I says. "I'll take the two hours this weekend to pull it, then drop it of Monday morning"

    "We'll fix it for ya, right away, and NO charge...NO problem"...:sly:

    That's the best that I could have expected...:p
    It would have been better if it was not a screwed-up in the first place; but like I said, you CAN'T say that. Be nice, be confused or naive..and always say thanks; for helping out the naive customer, that had no chance of fixing the problem with out YOUR very much appreciated help...:p

    Don't poke the badger, stroke him, and sing his praise...

    People skills Jonny, people skills...:pop:

  5. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Good deal spaner good deal.
  6. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    lol "stroke the badger" I like that
  7. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Yea, don't know where I came up with that one. Must have been a green fairy night...:sly:

    My people skills suck pretty good so, I advocate a little training once in a while to realign the interaction skills.

    I usually prefer though, to just say, "Do it, cuz that's what I said to do". What could be simpler, right?

    The results though usually leave much to be desired. Like both my voice and my knuckles, hurt afterwards...and the sh!t still ain't done...:confused:

    Then I end up having to go to some kind of anger management bullsh!t such and such...:sly:
  8. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member


    Called today, cu'z it was a week last Monday. "Fern not here, call you back." They called me back 4hrs later. "Come and get her..."

    Went to pick the alternator up, "you guys got that sh!t all figured out..yea?"
    "Yup, replaced the regulator." "Thought you did that last time?" "Nope, this time, we did."

    "AND, everything is OK?" "Yup, works good...no charge."

    I take it to the car and put the tester on to her. Main connector to lower controller port...9ohms..
    Nope, that's not right, and I walk it right back in. Well, by this point, they are trying to blame an onboard control computer; which is BS for a 93...

    "You have to install it to be sure...", they say...
    So, I did that. 2hr later...same sh!t....0.5amp draw after shutdown.
    Sure, it charges just fine after start-up. 14.85VOLT...After shut-down....0.5amp draw, 24hrs, and the battery is dead.

    "So, how do you explain that? It's not right....right?"

    Well by this point, they want nothing to do with it. I suspect that the field winding is shorted...but these guys are not going to mess with that.

    So, what's the solution?
    Already spent 60 bucks on her.


    Being diverted by The two "J" mans on another thread, and having a real good look at my A/C compressor clutch (took her apart) and the S/C clutch, to boot...

    Well, I gets the calculator out; of course.

    500cc x 2 = 1000cc (one rotation of the charger = 2 rotations of a 4-cycle engine)
    1000cc/657cc = 1.52207 (cc ratio)
    X 14.7 = 22.374429
    - 14.7 = 7.674429

    AND, what do I have on the gauge...7PSI
    Valve over-lap, volumetric efficiency...you be the judge.

    What I'm looking at here, is a change of application, from the ford A/C clutch, 6-rib unit, to the stock Suzuki 4-rib A/C clutch unit.

    So, 5 and 1/8th inch...= 5.125"
    The stock Suzuki A/C unit...4.0"
    The ratio,
    What was once 1000RPM, is now 1281.25RPM
    + 28.125%
    500 x 28.125% = 640.625cc
    X 2 = 1281.25cc (for every "suck" of the engine")

    1281.25cc/657cc = 1.9501522 (cc ratio)
    X 14.7 = 28.667237
    - 14.7 = 13.967237

    With the same reduction, not X 2, but X 4....

    = 11.269521

    11PSI, on the gauge...

    Thinking, maybe, just for fun.
    Trying to blow this F6A motor though...

    Math is the master. Removed from previous posts, but perhaps of value here.

    Cu'z it's just for fun, and maybe, I need a Hayabusa...with the AMR 500....

    Heard a "knock" today, yea!...off a rod, maybe even a main...:cool:

    Yea, blow that sucker...:sly:
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  9. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Spaner are u just doing some boost psi math or did you already play around with more boost and forgot to tell me???????? If you did we need photos and video for sure. If not that's ok ill kick back and wait till she goes booooooom from over boosting and then know how much boost I don't want :D.

    On the alt. note I know it's just the easy way out but u could put in a battery Disconnect to keep her from draining still not right but it would fixe the draining for now beings they won't fix the real problem.
  10. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    You got her figured right. I'm thinking an ignition PWR feed relay to the lower controller connector.

    Then I'm thinking, why not make a few emails, Don, Jimmy...

    Do a new alternator, and the 4" S/C pulley all-in-one.

    Fix it, and, blow it up; all in one go...

    Tomorrow, I'll consider it again...:sly:
  11. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Well I'm gonna tell u what U would tell me

    Mount it turn it drive it till she blows :cool::pop:

    We will all be watching.
  12. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Yea, you got it right.
    Dad says, "A 4-rib, with the wrap that you have now, not a problem"

    Then I think, A/C unit seals have to be rebuilt. Tear into that.
    The S/C, not a big deal, I know one of our members that has an old A/C unit for trade.
    The Alternator, not happening; it's just fubared from the guys that ment well. I just need a new one.

    I'm thinking Don for the Alt, and the A/C seals.
    Jimmy, can hook me up with an older suzuki A/C unit; for parts.
    Maslack, for the belt...

  13. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Do it do it do it do it. Worst is a boom best is a hole new interceptor package meaning. Yes I know the more the pis the less it is in Efficiency but its still added power.

    Just don't make me have to ask what's wrong are you scared it might be to much power for a mini???? That's a joke there is now way u would say yes to that.
  14. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    Hey spaner Terry hasn't jumped on this compressor yet, it's a DH150CX,off a '92 R12 system,been sitting at least 4 yrs. I also have an alternator off one of these spare engines I got so don't let anyone beat you up.You have friends in low places.
  15. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Nice :)

    How about trying out the new section...
  16. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Thanks goes out to Jim Nelson for the big help with parts for the "midnight-madness" project.

    Alternator was installed and works just fine. I haven't had a dependable one for a while, so I appreciate a quick solution to an aggravating problem. Now I can concentrate on the important parts and mods. Things look good, may even be simpler than I first thought. I may end up with a quick change kit. 7 to 12 and back in a few hours of work.

    Thanks again Jim..
  17. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    How's the change over coming spaner?
  18. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Still looking at it. Ran the bearing specs through VXB and looked at a few options. Probly 2 or 3 different ways to go about it, so, still thinking, bat died in my fancy new micrometer though, so dropped the ball for a bit, but a system cross bearing doesn't seem like it will be an issue. Just not sure if I want to have some custom components milled up or not.

    Had the truck out for a good 18 hours last week though. Everything works perfect. I forgot how much fun this truck is off road at 80k. Or EL, 4WD and a slow crawl.

    Lost all my boost on the way back to town at the end of the day though. Good thing it has a mechanical "limp mode", ha ha...still does 80k on the highway, but no boost.

    I'll be working on it this week for a bit.
  19. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Neber mind.

    It was just that the K&N was super contaminated with fines.
    It's just a function of the control design. If it drops too much vacuum pressure across the filter...it pulls enough vacuum at the F-port to open the sensor and de-energize the clutch.
    Moderate contamination, the clutch just "chatters".
    Severe contamination, no boost...the system goes into "limp-mode"; mechanically though, ha, ha..

    Took a few hours to puzzle it out. 5 minutes to fix it.

    Back in bidness...:cool:
  20. binder66

    binder66 Member

    Spanner will you allow access to your youtube stuff? I just ordered my amr500 and am hope to gleen info from you.
    This is a project I am looking forward to tackling.
    My super should be in by june 5th.

    Thanks Jeff
  21. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    I guess that means ill have to take some lead out and get to moving on mine
  22. binder66

    binder66 Member

    A build off? lol
    It was either this or a new 2013 carry.
    My better half auctually pushed for the new truck!

    Jeff in Wyoming
  23. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    No. No build off would not be fair to you unless your able to make your own parts I already have the supercharger the front mount plant and ac pulley bolted together and waiting on the mount to mount it on the intake and the carb to the other side. So I have a big head start on ya.
    I still have to mount lentghen all vac hoses get the main pulley set up and in place belt her up and crank it I lost my Motivation for a little while with a different mod that got push back cuz I can not weld. Just a matter of shaking it off and turning wrenches a little more and it will be together.

    Spaner I'm thinking before I do that I'm going to drop the front main member (the one that hold the front diff and the one that hold the trans and motor an inch to gain a little room under my rump to clear the stock seat. Sound like an ok plan?

    How is the ac clutch/ pulley swap going is it on and running or tabled. If its running what psi are you getting?
  24. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Had the truck out for the long weekend, wx was bad, so headed back to town Sunday. It's a 35k run out to the highway, 35k of fun. 12k of single lane twisty potholed gravel, then 23k two lane gravel.

    Passing everything on the road of course...:sly:

    So I'm about out, so I back down to 80kph to cool the truck off and light a smoke. I noticed this truck coming up behind me, pretty good; probly 90kph. Thought, hey, this guy's in a hurry...so, I down shift and hammer down. I hate that guys "think" that they can "take" the Interceptor in the bush. Through 110kph, this guy is slowly getting closer to me, and I think, "he's not really going to try to pass me on a two lane twisty gravel at 110kph+ ?"

    I was just about to say that this guy's crazier than me...when the lights come on...
    Blacked out shiny Suburban, I should have known; MNR...:frustration:

    The Constable comes up to the left window, says "Hey, how's it going? Remember me from last summer?"...:frustration:...DAM...

    Then I remember. It's the crew that I pulled across the beaver dam with the truck last July. At the time they were coming in to evict me from my Bass fishing camp site. 21 days and all that, but I actually had to pull his 4-wheeler across the beaver dam entrance so that they could come and inspect the site.
    Longer story, but it looks like he's got a new partner and he says " I pulled you over so my partner can get a look at THE truck; man I really can't get over this thing.."
    "Yea!" His partner says, "This thing really moves! doesn't it!" "We didn't think we was gonna catch you".

    Then another truck is coming up the road and he says "we gotta stop this one, so, have a good day".

    "Ho, yea, and...slow down, ok?"


    (Non posted areas are 50kph...technically..:sly:
  25. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Hey, guys, very busy lately but thought you might like that story. ;)

    Youtube is now ON, for the live-links posted on this site.

    Dropping everything down, jonny, will definitely help. The ratio, that will clear the charger install 100%? Couldn't say. Maybe a bit of both. But if all that work for 1", why not 4"...same amount of work.

    Also, wanted to remind you not to belt up the charger with just the manifold mount. Cracky, Snapy..
    I have a hard mount to engine block, front, AND back.
    It is a lot work to get it here, the details are many, but I wouldn't say complicated, just detailed.
    But everything is here in this thread. Somewhere...;)

    The 12 PSI mod, still thinking about it. I could just slap it on there but, I want some control over the possibility of an over-boost situation, under certain conditions. An infinite drive ratio system would be premo. For S/C, there is a prototype for automotive accessories applications. Fun to read about, I understand it, but don't have that kind of cash.
    The reason for it, is to have a high s/c speed at low engine rpms and a low s/c speed at high engine rpms. (higher/lower..than a "fixed ratio")
    In the 50s, this was done with a variable size V-belt drive pulley.

    Antiquated systems use a BOV. (spin it fast, dump what you don't need) Every turbo system designed. Not only a waist of precious HP, but not recommended with a suck-through, pre-mixed fuel charge being blown-off, or just rerouted.

    Luckily, the carb on this truck has exactly the correct design for this application. I read about guys changing over to SUs and enlarging CFM to "boost-up"...WRONG.
    Or, figuring installation of larger jets to "enrichen"...WRONG.
    Or, getting forged pistons, dropping compression...WRONG.

    Getting off track,
    Having the three airflow controllers and because of their locations, make the carb ideal for this application.
    Consider that the throttle butterfly, once closed, isolates the entire throttle body from the supercharger inlet; it's at the back extream of the ventury.
    Don't want to get too complicated, but just to say that boost level is also controlled (because of the design) by the throttle position. It is possible to have full S/C engagement, at full speed...and NO boost. With the throttle closed, a complete vacuum is created between the carb and the charger inlet. That vacuum is then compressed into a normal charge of air pressure.
    1 Atmo to .1 Atmo back to 1 Atmo

    Not exactly, but you get the idea.

    So, even right now, at full-pull, I can lower the real time boost level just by easing up on the throttle pedal. Or, press down, 2psi, 6psi...WOT 7psi. Take the filter off...7.25psi..;)

    Not a lot of builders know that this is even possible, cu'z typically they use a BOV, and just bypass everything by dumping it.

    Anyway, starting to get too long. Hope this helps a few out.
    Basically, if I produce more boost than is safe to have, under certain conditions, then what "this system" needs, is a "pedal pusher".

    I think that's where I'm going with it.
  26. Little Digger

    Little Digger Member

    I really love a good story!!! Keep em coming. ;):D:pop::pop:
  27. firejonny89

    firejonny89 Member

    Thanks for the reminder I almost forgot about those other mounts I believe u used roll stock and bent it to what u need ill look later not big deal. First off I still need to reset the carb it's die once its warm now but was way to busy this weekend to get to it. Nice story by the way just glad no ticket.
  28. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    MNR lol At least he was cool about it. :)
  29. binder66

    binder66 Member

    D H L has my blower in coco now so.....

    Be starting hell week at work tomorrow so next week get to start!

    Ordered a glowshift tach today and may order a boost gauge also.

    Feel like a kid in a junkyard, so many possabilitys.

    Have my old engine that I will use to set up. Think this way it will save a lot of time.

    Jeff in Wyoming
  30. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    You peak my interest, even though you arrive to the party late. The design is sound, but perhaps you can benefit from both my progress and jonny's by jumping ahead to the end-result.
    I see no reason for you not to integrate the DD51t AC pump into your design, and just go to the 12psi Interceptor 3.0.

    From my investigation, so far, the DD51t AC pump face plate seems to be more advantageous to the overall design.
    For example, the face-plate snout does have the seal retained by a factory C-clip; and the mounting consists of 4-M8 factory bolt holes. You would still need the ford type AC compressor for parts...
    Pulley, cut down to a 4-rib...but, would clear the timing belt cover...free and clear...
    Shaft, for the main drive component...cu'z the DD51t is not long enough for a direct drive...
    Drive pulley and bearing, electo clutch, direct install...
    Ford type AC clutch face plate...

    I hope that I'm not talking too far out side of your understanding.

    The first step to the mod, is the AMR500 Face-Plate mounting, so that the unit can be mounted direct to the factory DD51t intake manifold. Proper length for a belt drive. So far that has been a 6-ribbed serpt. BUT, a 4 would be better; just more room.

    AND the DD51t AC 4-ribbed pulley could make that an easy install, with 12psi boost...

    From the biggining, would be easier, than from the end...that's all I'm trying to say...

    A situation that can be managed, step, by step. Especially, if you are working from an engine "on the floor".

    Hopefully I've not confused you more than is really needed. Lots' O information in the thread, and lot's O part design and stuff. Should be possible for you...

    OR, JUST ASK...:p

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