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Sambar KS4 oil change, compression test and coolant system questions

Discussion in 'Subaru Sambar' started by PhilM, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hello all, I'm new Sambar owner, Ive done some reading and know some info but looking for help on a few things. So the engine may be toast, it smokes terribly but I figured best to start verifying things first such as compression, the coolant system and change the oil before trying to run it any amount.

    Compression test - what is min psi I should be looking for? Do I just take the spark plugs out to do the test or do I need to poor a little oil in each cylinder before each test?

    Oil change - I found what it takes for a filter (I think) but I cannot even FIND where the oil filter is to pull it off to then buy and replace it, where is it? Also, where is the oil drain plug and how much oil will it take for the refill?

    Coolant system - So found the radiator fill cap and it was very low, I also found what I think is a vent at the engine end, a small diameter hose with a plug on it. It looks like it just had straight water and its dark rusty color so I want to drain/flush it. I see there is a drain on the radiator, do I just take a hose off of the engine and flush it with a hose and let it drain out at the radiator?

    How do I go about re-filling it with antifreeze to get the air out?

    One good thing right now it appears to not be airlocked as I ran it for a minute and I can see fluid moving in the radiator at the cap.

    Thanks for your help.

    ~ Phil
     
  2. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Bump anyone out there able to answer any of my questions??
     
  3. Ronin

    Ronin Active Member

    I'm not a Subie expert but I believe the KS4 shows about 200psi in each hole when tight. Pull all the plugs and try each cylinder 'as is' first. Then with a little oil and see if it changes much.

    The small hose plugged for the cooling system bleed doesn't sound right but. Hmm.

    Hoping one of the guys will chime in soon with some better info/bump.

    Meanwhile... get dirtier, it's all there. IIRC the oil filter's located front and center under the timing belt cover, near the crank pulley. Drain plug... once again IIRC but left side of the oil pan I think. Go fish... :D

    And report back... this is a very helpful place but it's summer and guys have their hands full. Patience...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
    RanchHQ likes this.
  4. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hi Roni thanks, Ill get it up on jack stands so I can see better, its outside and raining now so will have to wait. I did more tinkering on it yesterday on its running state, it idles but dies with throttle. Suspect carb issue, clogged jets or something as I can hear the pump and see fuel in the filter which looks clean. It also had a leak on the carb, a small cover on the top, looking closer at it whoever had it before me must have stripped the mount holes to this cover and stuck short sheet metal screws in, over sized and wrecked the body, I'm thinking to get the leak there solved will need a new carb body unfortunately.. Hopefully a used carb can be had.

    Thanks, I will report back, with the rain ill go back to fixing the brakes on my 360 which is in the garage.

    ~ Phil
     
  5. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Active Member

    If you ran it for a short time & saw coolant moving in the radiator, there is a good chance someone has removed the Thermostat or it is stuck open as the fluid shouldn't be moving till the thermostat opens when it warms up. As long as you are going to do a flush, would be a good thing to pull tstat housing & take a look. Also be aware that there may be some coolant lines and coolant flow to and from the carb. Need to open the heat control while flushing to clean out the heater core too. At final fill of the cooling system, it is good to use approx 50% AntiFreeze & 50% distilled water. That should protect down to about 34 Deg below 0 F and will cool about as well as can be for the warmer weather times.

    Fred
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
  6. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hi Fred thanks yes I agree with you now that you say that about the thermostat.

    Where is the tstat located (housing) I see a large hose if I recall going to the front of the engine and another to the top left.

    To flush the system out, I see a drain on the radiator, just open that and take the cap off and then also pull hoses off of the engine and run water through the system from these hoses?

    When you say open the heat control, your saying to just turn the heat control on correct?

    I think I have bigger issues with the engine, it has no power, just can idle and barely move. It also smokes a lot, looks like white smoke. So Im going to do a compression test to start and see what it will need. Im hoping to just get away with rings and head gasket. Im not looking for a power house for on the road travel, this is for putting around on my own land.

    Thanks ~ Phil
     
  7. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Active Member

    I'm not familiar with your vehicle or engine, just speaking from experience in general. Push the heat control to hot to open the valve to allow fluid to circulate through the heater core along with the block & radiator. As a general rule Bluish smoke indicates bad rings or valve guides, white smoke indicates moisture in the combustion chamber, & black smoke indicates excessive fuel. Just from what I've read of your posts, I would make a guess that sometime it has been overheated and your piston rings are soft as spaggetti and will not hold compression. You may find that the head gasket has a "Blow through" between the combustion chamber & the water jacket, hence the white smoke and possible overheating. Hopefully you will not find a cracked head or block.

    Fred
     
  8. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hi Fred thanks, yeah Im aware the outlook is bleak but Ill do the compression test and see where it stands. If its possible to just do the rings and put a new head gasket on Ill try that. Not looking for a road speed racer just something to putt around our land in.

    ~ Phil
     
  9. SpikeFiend

    SpikeFiend Member

    What year and model Sambar do you have?

    The following applies to 1990's Subaru Sambars (with 660cc engine):

    Compression for an EN07C (NA) engine is 9.8 (bar?) and the EN07Y (Supercharged) is 8.3 (bar?).

    The oil filter is at the bottom right-hand side of the engine (looking from the rear), right next to the rear wheel. Follow the dipstick down and you should see it. The oil pan and drain plug is centered on the engine and the plug is angled slightly towards the front of the truck. A regular 4 to 5L jug of oil is all you need for the change.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hi SpikeFiend, so I'm not sure what year it is, I have the vin show as this:
    V-KS4 KS4C3AN
    KS4-144701
    jiberish-054 jiberish-310

    Not familiar with measuring engine compression in bars, my gauge measures in PSI. Is there a conversion?

    Once I get done getting my Subaru 360 on the road I will bring the Sambar in the garage and test the compression and try to figure out how deep I need to go to get it to run well or just make it lawn art...

    Ive found looking at some Japanese websites they are selling whole used engines fairly cheap if I could figure a way to get them to communicate with me and then to ship one I could handle an engine swap but I don't think I'm up for rebuilding an engine as Ive never done that.

    Thanks

    ~ Phil

    Thanks ~ Phil
     
  11. SpikeFiend

    SpikeFiend Member

    Hey Phil,

    That looks like a 1993 Sambar (produced in January).

    9.8 Bar = 142 psi, but don't hold me to the units in bar... the source I found didn't have units (but bar made the most sense). Check 'em and see what you get anyways.

    Unless you have all the tools and skills, I don't think re-building an engine yourself is cost effective. I just threaten my truck that if it's engine dies I'm ripping it out and converting it to electric. If you're looking for help, you can always try and bring in an engine through a mini-truck importer. They might add a bit of markup, but if they have people in Japan, they can look over the parts before you buy them.

    Don't let it's exotic origins fool you, most of the problems these trucks have are common to any similar vehicle. Googling the symptoms usually works, even if you'll never find Sambar specific advice.
     
  12. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Active Member

    Check out "yokohamamotors.net/store/index.html" and "jp-carparts.com" In the past I have dealt with JPcarparts and they are easy to deal with and have prompt worldwide shipping. I only have yokohamamotors in my resource list I have not done business with them.

    Fred
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  13. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hi thanks for the ideas, I think for the cost of parts, the most I would try is re-ringing it and a new head gasket, if that doesnt make it runable then Ill look into a used engine.
     
  14. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Hi Fred thanks, Ive looked at teh yokohamamoters.net site and they have a lot available but prices seam in the gouge catagory, I bet the parts are 1/5 in Japan than what they are asking for from folks in the US. the other site looks interesting, ill do some poking around on it, I see they will also make a purchase on yahoo auctions for you which could be a way to get a used engine as well. Thanks ~ Phil
     
  15. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    So I had some time tonight to tinker on the Sambar. I attempted to change the oil and filter and discovered the filter I looked up that should fit doesnt screw on. It was a FRAM PH4967, correct looking size but does not screw on. I then found someone referencing a FRAM PH6607 which I happen to have one of so Ill give that a try tomorrow.

    To get an idea of what is wrong with the oil im sending a sample off to Blackstone labs which analyze oil and let you know what is in it. I can tell just from the smell and look of it that it appears to have gasoline in it (strong odor and very thin) Not sure what causes that but will research it. I havent gotten to testing the compression yet, going away for the weekend and need to prepare for that...

    I did find I can order parts directly from Japan via a website called Rinkya.com Not easy or cheap but looks like I can get say a used carb for alot less than a new one here. (mine has stripped threads on the body and possibly causing a fuel leak. There are also used engines for not too much but need to figure out shipping to US. Probably good for small parts, IE Im buying radio bezel for my Subaru 360 from Japan, cannot find one here.

    ~ Phil
     
  16. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Update I tried the FRAM PH6607 and it threads on correctly, perfect fit. I filled it up, appeared to take 4 liters of oil. Upon starting it up it now smokes horribly and smells like oil. Guessing before because the oil was thinned so badly with fuel it was more white smoke and didnt smell like oil.

    So two problems, burning oil, most likely rings, will test compression. Second issue why the crank case filled with oil. I suspect isssues wit the carb and or too much fuel pressure?? Those sound valid items to check?

    Thanks

    ~ Phil
     
  17. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    OK Update, first to correct my last post, the crank case was filled with gas. I found when the key is on the fuel pump continues to pump and I can see fuel moving through the fuel filter (its clear) when the engine isn't running. I'm guessing the carb bowl float is not floating or the needle valve is stuck.

    Second item, I did a compression test, I do not know the order of the cylinders but I labeled them left to right 1 - 4. I got these readings per cylinders: 1-180 psi, 2-170 psi, 3-165 psi, 4-175 psi.

    Reading up on testing compression for a multi cylinder 4-stroke they indicate 15% variation from the highest reading is acceptable. So that would be 180 x .15 - 27. 180 - 27 = 153 psi. So from that info it appears there is no one horrible cylinder those cyl 3 is the lowest. I also did some googling around and it appears for 4 stroke automobiles readings in the 150-180 range is typical.

    From a previous response above SpikeFiend indicated 9.8 bars is acceptable which is only like 142 psi so appears the compression may be ok.

    I next need to do a wet compression test to see if its the rings or the head/valves that is the issue I'm seeing for the lower compression on mainly cyl 2 and 3.

    So the white smoke could be a cracked head or a leaking head gasket. I also read it could be caused by too much fuel pressure and essentially causing a flooded cylinder situation. The plugs are soaking wet when I take them out after running briefly.

    So does anyone know what the fuel pressure should be?

    Thanks ~ Phil
     
  18. SpikeFiend

    SpikeFiend Member

    It looks like fuel pressure for a carbureted Sambar should be 0.15 +/- 0.03 kg/cm2 (2.1 +/- 0.4 psi)... probably. My manual has what I'm guessing is a typo (called kg/m2, which would give ~0 psi).
     
  19. PhilM

    PhilM Member

    Wow that low huh? I was looking at regulators that run in the 4-9 psi range, guess I need to find one that goes lower...

    Thanks ~ Phil
     
  20. SpikeFiend

    SpikeFiend Member

    I'm not that familiar with carbureted engines, but if fuel is flowing continuously when the engine isn't running I would say that your fuel pressure is fine but your floats aren't working properly. You might be able to get a new/rebuilt carburetor or a repair kit to sort that out.
     

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