Discussion in 'EPA Regulations' started by Krakatoa, Oct 17, 2008.
D.O.T. WILL KEEP THEM OFF THE ROAD. they do not meet the safety standards
Boosted and Rural, You guys are right. Most people on here have gotten their feathers too ruffled. Things will work out fine in a few months.
(and no, the states that have passed mini-truck laws haven't ruined it for everyone)
For those who want them off-road only, go for it. But don't be upset at the states that have them on-road now as well.
here is the reply i got back from the EPA import line.
Scroll down to regulations and guidance to see the regulation itself under "Final Rule (PDF)" (you can also link to: http://epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/marinesi-equipld/bondfrm.pdf).
The pertinent changed language is in the definitions for "Model Year," and "New Nonroad Engine" in Section §1048.801. See page 59243.
40 CFR 1048
David C. Hurlin
EPA Imports Line
Compliance & Innovative Strategies Division
Light Duty Vehicle Programs
Managed by EG&G Technical Services
Phone: (734) 214-4100
Fax: (734) 214-4676
So? I thought the idea here was to keep them from stopping the importation? If the dealers get closed down by new laws, there soon would be no parts available either, so even current owners have a huge stake in this!
Mine's working just fine with SMV and SIS placards. Drove by a town cop the other day.....he didn't even bat an eye. Still haven't seen a State Patrol in it, that may be a problem!!
But for now, if they want to stop them based on emissions, simply have them converted to propane BEFORE importing.
Hey guys it seems to be we're typing the same thing over and over... We have a great community here and a member base of 2,300 that can help. I know in this thread and a couple other thread we have things we need to do. Lets figure out exactly what we need to do and make it a sticky and make sure we all do it.
I believe that there are tons of uses for the truck beside just driving them on the roads. So let get out of the depressed mode and do something.
I find it hard to picture a group of attorneys sitting around a table can write new EPA rules covering 348 pages that only an attorney can understand.
Are any of the importers, exporters or dealers banning together with firstname.lastname@example.org . With a membership here of 2300 members, maybe everyone could donate $10.00 or so to hire the Washington DC attorney.
I would think if the trucks meet EPA ratings, it should then be back to the individual states as to whether or not to make them street legal. I bought mine because they are street legal in Mississippi. I drive it everyday for running errands and general uses. I have another vehicle, but if they aren't kept street legal, other than cuteness, I have no use for it and will be forced to sell it.
We have all got to fight this together as one group, and not as one here and one there.
i have addressed this issue several times. if your trk. is approved by the e.p.a. that does not mean it is street legal. d.o.t. says they do not comply with the federal highway safety act. they have already started informing states that if they do not stop issueing tags for the trks. they will no longer receive federal highway funding and no state can operate without these funds.
canadian1, do you know what about these trucks specifically is causing issues with the DOT?
Since the new ruling mainly attacks new vehicles, then are the new imports(2008 and up) banded from road use?
From what I got reading the section it only effects vehicles from 2004, and up not older vehicles pre-dating 2004 emmisions guidelines.
Is the EPA saying that all used vehicles imported into the US need to pass the 2004 emision standards even if they pre-date 2004?
Are they considering a used vehicle imported into this country as being new?
I think this is to prevent importation of only vehicles by small importers not those imported by the large companies like GM, Chrysler,Ford Toyota ect. ect. ect.
Its screw the little guys by the EPA with more beaurocratic hogwash..
the safety features that are built into todays vehicles. these trks. have never been tested by d.o.t. so they have no data on them. roll over test==frontal crash test==rear end collision test==side impact crash test==air bags and ect and ect.
Action against proposed EPA ban on Mini imports
Hello All - I've been following some of the talk on this forum for several weeks, but just registered for the first time. I'm in Southern New Mexico, have purchased a couple containers full of mini's and sold most of them. My personal is a '95 Mitsu. But that's not why I'm writing.
I just spoke with one of the larger importer/distributors. There is apparently a great deal of concern about the future of the mini-truck sport and industry due to the proposed EPA regs governing continued importation. It was suggested to me that the proposed regs are the result of successful lobby from the ATV industry (ironic since many ATVs are also made in Japan).
It seems from the interest and numbers of Mini enthusiasts (on this forum alone) that together we could bring some pressure to bear on EPA, if needed.
If dealers/importers will keep this forum informed of the status and situation regarding the EPA, perhaps some action can be organized to petition against the proposed ruling.
That's it from me for now.
This was tried with PA a few years back and when the Feds with the EPA and DOT couldn't get their **** in gear about inspections. PA had built brand new inspection stations that were sitting idle for years , PA scrapped the whole thing and called the Feds bluff . The funds weren't pulled. I know one of the stations is now a RadioShack
I called Harvey Fox in D.C. today. He worked for EPA for 9 yrs. He made up the first regs. to get these trucks into the USA several yrs. ago.(4 or 5). He now has a law firm in D.C. and is following this EPA thing. Bottom Line 10,000.00 retainer fee and a monthly fee for dealing with EPA. Who knows how long it would take. He told me the best ammo is having a few people contact a few congressmen(better if you know them personally)and get them to contact him. Harvey Fox # 208-867-5643. He also made it very clear that the EPA has a very heavy hand and it takes congressmen that have heavy hands to deal with these things. In a recent post it said to contact
email@example.com, it appears they are trying do something as well. I will email them and see what they are doing. If we could, somehow, get all 2000+ members together @ 20.00 ea thats a start. Mr. Fox even said he read though the new rules and its hard to find exactly what they want. If someone has this info. please post it. We need specifics on the truck it self. Not click on a link have to read 300 pages of stuff that repeats itself and when you finish you are as confused as when you started.
Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained.
AMEN-AMEN AND AMEN
COUNT ME IN
what are the changes in plain english?
I'm in for sure. Would be great to have everyone pitch in, but we want to make sure the money is going where it should go.
Where do we send the money and how?
I will be glad to donate....
I too like Kevin think it is important to make sure the $$ get to the right place. Waiting to hear - where to send.
We need to find out what GR imports or Yamagin is going to, if either of these two plan on buckeling down for a fight then we need to back one of these two. I know both have had serious dealings with EPA and customs and both are reputable. I don't want to elect someone that's not interested but we need to find out what one of these two is going to do and support accordingly.
No membership dues can be collected until several legalities have been worked through. For example, we must first legally form an association of which a bank account will be needed. Once membership fees are announced, they would be payable to the legal association which is accountable for those fees. Members have the right to certain book keeping and would receive reports concerning the associations governing of funds as well as activities.
We're at the beginning stages and will continue to update you on the progress. I have a call planned with Mr. Fox tomorrow and will be discussing several points concerning our industry, representation and objectives.
We need EVERYONE's involvement! The registration right now is only to build a preliminary database. Once we are legal, we will collect dues and separate paid members from by-standers. I hope there are not many of the latter.
Mini Truck Exporter, You have my support. Guys, Mini Truck Exporter and I had a tele. conversation yesterday. They are commited in following this EPA matter. All we want is to comply with EPA and find out exactly what is needed to import them, if it is cost effective, so be it. Please support this matter.
I'm fairly new to this forum, but have been following this issue very closely. I have participated in many different forums over the years and just wanted to comment on this post overall. Let me preface this by saying that I'm not intentionally trying to flame anyone or cause a problem, but I'm just floored by what I've read here... :frustration:
Out of 10 pages to this thread so far, honestly there is maybe 1 or 1-1/2 pages of useful, decent information that might benefit us all. The rest is nothing more than a bunch of "the-sky-is-falling-and-I-told-you-first" hyped CRAP. While EVERYONE here is entitled to their opinions on any matter, the purpose of this thread is to collect useful, factual information on this very important issue. The sad reality is that it is very hard to weed through all of the BS being posted for good information that some of you have shared so far. In some cases, it even wreaks of personal agendas overtaking the validity of this issue. I'm sure I'm not the only one that is monitoring this thread daily for updates, only to find that another ridiculous farse posted with no basis or facts to back it up.
To those of you that have nothing useful to contribute, I ask that you refrain, or start another post where you may post to your hearts delight on every BS hypothetical reason as to why the evil Empire is using the dark side of the Force to eradicate mini trucks. To those of you that have taken the time to share the great information so far, THANK YOU!!! Your efforts are greatly appreciated! Please continue to help this industry and the enthusiasts behind it.
Let's try and get this thread back on track...
Your point is extremely important here! We are also making posts in our thread labeled Kei Truck Association. I'll email Kevin about creating a single thread for this issue and the appropriate visbility.
Here is our post from the other thread.
It is important for us to take an unbiased opinion here. we will only post information directly from the EPA so we can avoid confusion, rumors and separate fact from fiction. I think we all deserve that!
For those of you who would like to review the Federal Registry where the EPA puts regulations in writing, I am sharing a link which was sent to us by a member of the Mobile Source Enforcement Branch, Air Enforcement Division of the EPA.
This is a large document. The page of interest is page 59,243.
I caution you on drawing any conclusion from this reading. Like all legal writings, much of it can be left up to interpretation and we are awaiting a guidance document in black and white any day now. The EPA is drafting this guidance document due to some pretty outrages rumors which even they have heard about.
Please be patient while we wait for this next communication from the EPA.
Excellent advice Jeff! Everyone just needs to be patient on this topic and wait for an actual answer in black & white before jumping to ridiculous conclusions. Once we clearly know what we're up against, then we can develop the appropriate ammunition to wage battle.
Count me in!
Just spoke with EPA. documents are due out any day. it will be pricey but if you are serious dealer it will be worth it. new regulations will allow registering in any state as a non road vehicle. also they may assign vin numbers. they are still ironing out the final details.
Boosted... what further information can you share when you say "pricey". That could easily be interpreted from many different viewpoints. Ok, so the price of the individual truck may go up... first to the exporter... then possibly to the re-seller/dealer... then to the end consumer. Is that the meat & potatoes of what this "K-truck BAN" is all about? Because the ultra-low-priced gravy train is over with and now these trucks are going to cost more?
Folks, that is a far cry from a BAN on these vehicles. Does anyone not consider that IF the EPA wanted to completely shut-down this tiny little segment of the import industry that it would BE shut-down already and every container load would be heading back overseas? On the flip side of the coin, does anyone actually believe that the Japanese Government is not going to work towards a resolution if their economy is reaping the benefits of thousands of exported USED vehicles yearly to the U.S.? While it will probably cost everyone involved more to obtain one of our little work-horses, consider that this just MIGHT pave the road for better days ahead (titling and registration), etc. It has been pointed-out over and over again that EVERYTHING with a motor imported into the U.S. is going to be subject to emissions/testing to ensure that the motors and engines meets air quality standards. This was only a matter of time. Now that our so-called friends in the Federal Government have been alerted to the rising interest in these vehicles with individual states passing ordinances and laws that allowed limited road use, we should've expected no less.
Yes, I agree... this was better-left alone to not draw all of the attention that it did. But I also understand the mentality of businessmen involved along with the consumers that pushed for road-legality. Imagine the market if these vehicles were made street-legal nationwide. However, in the same breath, I also understand how significant pricing changes may impact dealers of all sizes.
I do not support the EPA on this decision... whatever it may be. I do believe that we will find a way to adapt to whatever big changes are coming down the pipeline. How many times have there been major waves in this industry?
Just look at eBay item number 330282308967 ending Nov. 7 and see what's happening at the port in Tacoma with a shipment of 12 stranded kei trucks. I'm glad I only paid $3950 for my road-tagged Sambar in Mississippi. I won't feel so bad if it has to go to the shredder.
That is a pile of money sitting there that is for sure. WOW! First picture show a double whammy.. automatic and van. I wonder if thats what caused that problem at the port. That is exactly why I couldn't justify taking a chance bringing in vans or autos. Darin
Hmmm... not alot of information on the trucks themselves. How do you know that there wasn't an unrestricted automatic mixed in which doomed the entire shipment? Too much vague information to draw any inferences. There have been MANY containers turned-around due to poor planning and logistics. There's little information here to form an educated decision on why this took place.
sure is strange, here in St Louis at the Dealer only auto auction 2 weeks ago customs sold 5 minis Wonder why they were allowed to do that???? Seems like a lot of conflicting stories here. I am opposed to any one group of importer/dealers being in charge of this battle. I think we all have an interest in this issue and need support from all who make money off of the minis and a smaller amount from those who love and own minis
My $.02 worth guys. I dealt with Federal and State EPA's for 10 years.
Separate names with a comma.