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Engine timing

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by garrett490, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    Searched for hours. Found some info with misspellings and possibly incomplete instructions. I replaced the head gasket. Now I need to do the timing so the engine will start. Here's what I did and hopefully someone can point out what I did wrong.

    1. Rotated cam gear until the mark on it matched up with the triangle mark on the timing belt housing back plate.
    2. Ensured that the rotor on the distributer was pointing downward toward the ground which is closest to number one cylinder plug wire.
    3. Next rotated the crankshaft gear until the dot that looks like a hole punch dot was lined up with a diamond like shape on the engine block/oil pump area.
    4. Next I put the belt on
    5. Tried starting truck. Mostly no firing at all with occasional slight hit or pop.

    Engine is a F6A. On a DD51T truck
     
  2. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    The crankshaft timing mark is on the flywheel,remove the cover in the bed and on top of the flywheel housing is a rubber plug.Remove the plug and turn the crankshaft clockwise til the T mark on the flywheel aligns with the mark.The #1 wire in the cap is usually on the side not bottom,trace the wire back from the plug. On the cam gear there are 2 marks that can be confusing,the one that lines up with a "spoke" on the gear is what you want.The specs call for the timing to be 7 BTDC but most guys find 9 or 10 better.
     
    Matt likes this.
  3. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    Ok that all makes sense. When you say 7 degrees BTDC is that a number on the flywheel or a position to twist the distributor to? Next question. What's the trick to putting the timing belt on and maintaining the settings of the cam and crank pullies? I get the crank and cam pully set properly. Then I loosen the tensioner and disconnect spring. Get the belt started then put a wrench on either the crank or cam bolt and beginning turning over the engine and holding the belt in place until it pops on. Usually at this point my settings are off...then I hand push the tensioner down to increase tension and sometimes this gets me closer to the settings I had or further away. What's the easy way?
     
  4. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    Not sure what's happening. Take the spring off the tensioner, put the belt on with the timing marks lined up then replace the spring which sets the tension and tighten the bolt.Maybe you need to rotate the belt a little to get the teeth to line up but you shouldn't have to.Are you using a new belt or an old one that may be stretched?When you say the belt "pops" on it should just slide on.It's really easy to make this harder than it really is.
     
  5. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    Ok. And in reference to the 7, 9, 10 BTDC numbers. The markings on the fly wheel go from T to 5, 10, 20. Are you saying put the timing belt on when the flywheel is lined up on the 10 and NOT the T if I want to run 10 BTDC? Here's another question but not to do with timing. After replacing the head gasket, intake manifold, and exhaust manifold gaskets it appears we have burning coolant smoke coming from the exhaust manifold area. What's your thoughts on how that could be happening?
     
  6. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    When you initially put the timing belt on everything needs to be set at T on the flywheel then after you get it running you set the timing by turning the distributor while watching the timing marks on the flywheel,specs call for 7 btdc at 950 rpm +/- 50 degrees so 1000 rpm is good. Hopefully the smoke is just residual from build up from the leaking head gasket you replaced.One thing that needs to be looked at on these engines is the freeze plugs in the head.There are 2 of them and sometimes one will rust out and act like a blown head gasket.After having this happen once I always replace them if working on a head.
     
  7. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    Thank you for walking me through this Jim. I'll get back at it tomorrow. This is the third full day of working on the truck. If things don't start working tomorrow I'll be looking for a mechanic near Kennesaw, GA thats up for finishing up the job. And to clarify my use of the word "pop" in reference to the timing belt. I meant it kinda pops on after you use a wrench to turn the crank pully and the belt starts to get onto the cam pully then it kinda pops on once it gets enough grab on the pully. I would have though that with the tensioner loosened and spring disconnected I can easily lay the belt around all pulleys then use the tensioner to take out the slack however it hasn't been that easy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  8. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    The first time doing this is always tough but the more you do the easier it gets and things kind of fall together.Stress always makes it harder.Take a day off and it will make sense after you get away from it a while.Always feel free to ask as there are a lot of really good guys on this forum who will help when they can.
     
  9. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Yup, Jim will walk you through it...everybody started at the beginning,
    Breaking it down, to the simplest terms, you have three (3) areas of concern,
    1, The bottom end,
    2, The top end,
    3, The ignition,

    Its best to work your way "up" from the bottom, getting everything "right" as you go.
    The deciding factor, is "the belt" which meshes everything together, and then of course, the dizzy, which tends to trend to the 180 out position. LEARN, SET...ADJUST.

    First, "the valves"...have you messed with them? Might just as well do an adjustment during the procedure, so that you know that they are "correct".

    Regardless, the belt is "tight on the right" (from the front), do this by hand. Put the belt on, and align the marks on the gears, so that you are nether a tooth over, nor under, the indicators, of which, there are three (3).
    1, the crank,
    2, the cam,
    3, the tranny "T" mark.

    Align all 3, with the belt, then, with the "tensioner spring" in place, AND the "tensiioner-main-mounting-bolt" loose, rotate via-the-crank, clockwise---to pressure---to force, then tighten the retaining bolt, on the timing-belt tensioner.

    Your belt is now set, to the proper position and tension.

    Now, your system will have two (2) TDC conditions.
    1, bang,
    2, blow,

    You have to check the condition of the front (#1) piston. (no plugs in it)
    Rotate the front (#1) piston to the TDC position, whilst noting if the air is being pushed out of the spark plug hole, or the exhaust manifold. You can also check this via the valve positions at the front (#1) location. Arms are loose, valves NOT being pushed (valves closed).
    This is the "bang", and what you want, referred to as TDC, on the compression stroke...

    This is where you want "the bang", the spark, the ignition.
    You now have a "static setting" to do this.
    Now, you MUST place the dizzy/rotor, to be under the plug lead that fires the #1 (front) plug wire. Does not matter where it is, but the rotor MUST be under a pole on the cap that feeds to the #1 spark plug.

    Got it?
    Then, "the rotor" clockwise on the dizzy, next fires the #3, then the #2...dizzy-clockwise...#1, #3, #2....

    This will start the engine, then via the FULL-dizzy rotation, will give you the fine adjustment to get you your 7, or 10 degrees (dynamic-AND-via timing-gun) whilst running, timing adjustment.

    Thanks Jimmy, my vote for moderator, I just do not have the time to fill in the gaps of the every-day posts.

    K-man, give Jimmy the next "Supporting-Moderator" position.
    He's already there, he just needs the title.



    Spaner :cool:
     
    Matt likes this.
  10. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    Thanks spaner. Your guys input will greatly help myself and others when timing a suzuki carry. There's not much on the Internet that explains things in the detail you guys went to and when it's your first time every bit of detail helps.
     
  11. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    SUCCESS! Thanks everyone. I had everything perfect except the rotor which was slightly before cylinder 1 spark plug while everything else was at TDC so the spark was hitting when everything was past TDC. Moved the rotor a couple gear teeth over to be right at the #1 plug wire it started right up. Gonna get a timing light to dial things in better as it doesn't run perfect right now but is totally driveable. The head gasket also appears to have fixed our over heating cycle issue. This thread went from start to finish with your guys help. Thank you very much. Hopefully when people with similar problems are searching the Internet they can find this thread which gives baby steps on the timing process which I could not find. Just broad comments that only experienced guys would understand.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  12. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    Congratulations now you can help the next guy.
     
  13. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    exactly...:cool:

    That's the whole concept of THIS forum.
    Now you know how to do this, but maybe you already know how to do something else. Something that no one else here knows how to do. Like tanning or something...:confused:
     
    fmartin_gila likes this.
  14. garrett490

    garrett490 Member

    Ha thanks. I just wrote up everything I learned into a head gasket tutorial. With your guys help, Bob at G&R imports help, and trial and error I was able to complete the project.
     
  15. native

    native Member

    I have a 1996 Suzuki DD51t
     
  16. native

    native Member

    I followed this thread to a tee and I sucessfully installed my new timing belt and set the timing without to much trouble, Thank you Guys this thread was very very helpful Im back on the road again and headed to woods for some Michigan bear hunting!
     
  17. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Would the timing on a 1990 DB51T be the same?

    1990 Suzuki carry 660 DB51T
     
  18. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Nice thread.. I followed this but I'm still having an issue. on the cam I see that there are two marks.. Do use the one that is inline with the dail pin or the other one?
     
  19. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Ok figured that out.. But still having running issues .. Double checked my timing marks all are good as follows.. Have the "T" centered in the hole on the tranny, cam mark lined up with the spoke in line with the mark on the back plate, rotor button pointing at the number one cylinder on the cap.. Still will not run unless I tap the gas and it spits through the carb likes its out of time.. Please help! Lol. I have rotated the distributor counter clock ways to get to run. But will not ideal.
     
  20. DonBadajoz

    DonBadajoz New Member

    I am having the same issue on my DB71T 1988 Carry. I have piston 1 on TDC (Valves closed - both rocker arms not putting pressure on piston 1 valves), have the "T" aligned with the transmission case and the rotor set to firing point 1 on cap. It cranks and runs but with no power on acceleration. I put a timing light and it reads 40 in the flywheel... when moving the distributor for retard/advancement I dont get near 7 degrees closest I get is 15 degrees.

    When running, I have no Top End Power... I can drive in 1st and 2nd gear but when on 3rd I loose power. I have searched on here and tried the suggestions that was provided to them to no avail.

    Also, where is this elusive carburator tuning guide from don in Japan... I cannot find it.

    Please assist.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015

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