[SOLVED] '94 Hijet S110P Won't Start

I checked, and mine is not connected to anything either...

 

She started! The new plugs did it. Sprayed some more starter fluid in and immediately got a cough. Hooked everything back up and used some more starter fluid and she was up and running. Made it to the end of the driveway and back no issues and then started twice on its own back in the barn.

Going to need to be tuned up I'm sure, but happy to have a running truck again. I had a feeling it was something simple like that - just thought I screwed it up and not my mechanic! Lesson learned.

Thanks for all the help guys. If you have any advice for adjusting the screws on the carb I'd appreciate it. Also wondering if I should try to make my vacuum lines match the diagram once the new hose gets here...

 

Jigs has a great youtube as well as description on this site on adjusting the carb which should get you close... Glad it worked out for you! With the vacuum lines, remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

 

Good Idea to add "Solved" by editing your thread title so others can learn from all this as well...

 

Well, I'm back to having issues again already....

Cold front arrived last night/today, but temps were still in the 30s this morning/afternoon. Went to try to start the truck and didn't have much luck. However it coughed enough that I was pretty sure it would start after a few tries. But then it didn't want to turn over. I waited a little bit and put the oil pan heater on. Tried again and this time it turned over once or twice then stopped. I noticed there was a burning smell right when this happened. I'm not sure what this could have been? Is it possible my starter died?

The truck won't crank at all now - not a bit. This is a brand new battery I just picked up last week or so. I've ran the car each of the past few days no issues.

And I'm also back to having the bed blocking the underneath access again. If it's not cranking there's no way for me to lift it. I will try to see if I can figure out the method Limestone mentioned in the early stages of this thread.

 

On mine, I simply used a cordless drill, and attached it to the Hydraulic oil pump, with a socket! Then by engaging the cordless drill motor, I was able to turn the pulley, which engages the pump, ang sent fluid into the cylinder, and it raised the bed up, then I put the Bed brace in place, to secure it for Safety! I think I also turned the Key on to accessory, and either depressed the clutch or, put a clamp on the clutch switch at the pedal, simulating my foot being on the pedal! I hope this helps!
Limestone

 

Thanks for the response Limestone.

This is what I'm looking at under my driver's side seat. Is the part on the top left what you are referring to by chance, or is mine different from yours? I don't want to go turning things until I know what they are.

 

Yeah that's it, you can tell by the centrifugal clutch on the pulley! That's your hydro. pump! Naturally use common sense and go slow, and make sure everything is copacetic! I'm sure that your fluid is full, or at least up to snuff, being that you raised it already! I had no problems at all doing it on more than one occasion. I also remembered that I UN plugged the clutch switch, and just jumped the two wires, making it easier to simulate me depressing the clutch with my foot. Remember mine's left hand drive, and the pump is on the right, so being a contortionist just isn't in my DNA!
Limestone

 

Sweet that worked Limestone. Awesome little trick! My drill almost didn't fit in there but there was just enough space to make it work.

Now to figure out the rest...any way to test if this is an issue with my starter? Pretty sure I am getting no spark at the ignition coil right now, but hard to check by myself.

I should also note that I had been hearing an occasional grinding noise from time to time which I think I have read can be a sign of a bad starter.

 

I'm glad that helped! My problems were similar and well documented about a year ago! Test, Test and re Test everything! A really knowledgeable, and good friend of mine, who was a cracker jack Mechanic, was helping me. At one point We had 3 test lights, and a test buzzer that would sound when we would check contacts for continuity. It was crazy! We found several issues that we fixed, and finally conquered it! I wish I could tell you a simple answer but I can't! Like I said it was crazy! Good Luck!
Limestone

 

As you have turned the engine over to raise the bed, the engine isn't inhibited. It could be the starter smoked. Low voltage from the old battery days may have increased the current enough through the brushes or windings and caused it to finally fail when stressed. A stalled starter is like close to a dead short to the battery, so the system voltage (including ignition) could be lowered significantly on a start attempt...

 

Well, I ordered a new starter - hopefully that does the trick. I ordered from grparts.net...appears to be the same as G & R Imports except they didn't chart me a core fee...can anyone confirm? Used Paypal regardless.

Tested the voltage to it and it was definitely receiving power. Only odd thing was that it was receiving power constantly, whether or not the key was turned in the ignition...

Teeth in the starter all look the same. From the portion of the flywheel I can see doesn't look like any significant damage to the teeth there. Would really prefer not to tear apart the engine if I don't have to...

 

The positive heavy lead from the battery is connected to one side of the starter solenoid, which, when activated by the start position on the ignition switch (small wire connected to the starter solenoid coil) pulls the solenoid in and connects the battery to the positive terminal on the starter. Hopefully, the starter comes with a new solenoid, as that can become defective also... I suspect you were measuring the voltage at the solenoid connection which is "hot" all the time being directly connected to the battery...so that is normal. The alternator output wire also connects onto the solenoid (and the battery) at this location as well.

 

The new starter arrived today. Seemed pretty straightforward. Put the new starter in, secured the bolts, reconnected the two electrical connections, and tried to start the car. I'm just getting a straight grinding noise now that sounds really bad. This is not the noise it was making before (maybe faint grinding noise occasionally and ultimately no noise, just one "click").

This is the starter I bought: https://www.grparts.net/product-p/starter s110p.htm

Am I doing something wrong? I watched a couple Youtube videos/read a few articles on replacing a starter and didn't see anything I really should be doing other than just putting it in and reconnecting things. The only thing on the two that looks different is that on the new one the wheel is further back and not near as far forward in the opening. But from reading it seems this is supposed to be moved forward to engage the flywheel when starting the engine?

 

I’m assuming that you have the starter you took out, so you can check and see if they are dimensionally the same. I think the Hijets had two lengths of starters, one early production, and one later production.

Did you check the gear on the flywheel for damage? Did you clean any heavy grease or preservative off the shaft, so the gear can move freely? Are you certain that the starter is bolted onto the bell housing cleanly?

 

The starters look pretty much identical. Only difference was the wheel on the old one was further out towards the end of the starter, but when I pushed it back in they went to the same "default" position.

I pushed the flywheel with a screwdriver and all the teeth I could see look the same - nothing looks seriously damaged at all. I did notice that at certain points the wheel spun much easier than others. Pretty tough to spin at the beginning, then really loosening up and didn't take much pressure, then started being tough to turn again. I suppose it's possible something is causing it to stick?

The shaft of the starter looks clean. Fit was a little tight the first time, but the second time I was able to fit it in easily and then turn into position. Same grinding noise.

12.6+ volts on the battery and 12.5+ volts to the small wire that connects to the metal pin on the starter when I turn the key.

Also I attempted to test the starter when it was out of the truck. I connected it and placed it on an upside down bucket to hold it up. When I went to turn the key, nothing happened. Odd because of the grinding noise when it's installed in the vehicle. Not sure if there is a reason it's not starting outside of the truck, or if that just means I have received a defective starter. I also can't move the gear on the starter freely back and forth like I can my old starter, but it does rotate freely.

 

Flywheel and starters

 

Apologies for the consecutives posts, but after placing a call to G & R they told me that my old starter was damaged and likely damaged the flywheel to the point that the new starter won't work with it. Said to take the flywheel off and put it on backwards as it will not be nearly as worn on that side.

They said that the wheel on the starter should not freely back and forth and that because my old one did it likely damaged the flywheel. However in watching videos online I have seen the starter wheel be able to "kick out" pretty easily and be moved just with fingers which this one cannot do.

Not sure what to think here. Don't want to go tearing everything apart when I just needed a different starter.

 

Last one, I swear:

I perhaps got a little overzealous and took apart both starters (that was a treat). I noticed the wheels/teeth weren't quite the same between the two, and it didn't seem to be due to wear. Long story short I ended up with the old wheel mechanism in the new starter and actually got it to fire up and spin by hooking it up to a battery. Put it in the truck and got a much more pleasant sound, as if it was actually trying to turn over the engine, but it was very short lived and then...nothing. Now I am back to turning the key and nothing happening (even attempted to jump it to make sure the battery wasn't an issue). I took the starter back to the battery and it hooked it up and it fired up and ran just the same.

So my three conclusions here are:

1) I bought the right kind of starter ("long") as the housings are a perfect match
2) The teeth on the new starter were a problem and not a good match
3) My original problem was very possibly something other than the starter

I wish I could test the old starter to see if it runs, but when I tried to take it apart the screw holding on the wire coming out of the unit was so rusted on it actually broke the plastic housing.

Any advice on where to next? If the starter works fine, but when I go to crank nothing happens...??

 

The picture of the old starter doesn't appear right...the picture of the new one looks to me as it should, with the gear disconnected back towards the starter motor from the flywheel. The old one looks like the gear is stuck in the flywheel cutaway? This would cause the starter to not disengage when the motor started... The gear is usually engaged by centrifugal force when the starter is activated, causing the gear to slide back and engage with the flywheel. When the starter stops, the gear is disengaged from the flywheel. The gear should slide smoothly along it's shaft. It should rotate smoothly on the shaft as well, but that will probably "break in" quickly, I think... It shouldn't be very "sticky", especially if you put a smear of moly lube on the shaft.

Sometimes an ignition switch starter contacts will connect enough to show voltage as yours does (12.5v) but is not able to support the current needed to activate the solenoid. To test the ignition switch starter contacts, (and it's source at the fuse panel), install the starter. If you connect a ~14 gauge wire or jumper to the starter battery post and touch it to the solenoid + terminal, the starter gear should snap back towards the flywheel opening and engage the starter, bypassing the ignition switch. If it turns over the motor, it could be the starter switch contacts or a fuse in the panel. If there is not enough current through the switch to operate the solenoid properly, perhaps the noise could be "chatter" from the solenoid not engaging (dropping in and out of the flywheel)?

 

Yeah I figured the part out about it not moving back and forth once I had them apart. The old starter actually broke the other day when I tried taking it apart to see if maybe it was the issue. I don't know why I did this - I should have found a way to test it away from the truck like the battery. But that is why it was able to move freely - the motor which moves it back and forth was detached from the main unit. I think the issue with the new one was more the teeth being too big for the flywheel.

Thanks for the advice on the next test Roadster - I will give that a try tomorrow. Spring is here and I need my truck!

I should note that I ignored your advice and went ahead and changed the vacuum lines to match the diagrams. My goal was to get the truck running as smoothly as possible, and the idle still seemed a bit rough and also needed to be high to prevent frequent stalling. There was also an outlet on the carb that had nothing attached to it which didn't seem right. I am hoping this did not cause any of the problems I'm now experiencing. I don't think it's likely, but me screwing something up is always my first worry.

 

So as I understand it this test was basically doing what I was on my workbench, running the starter independently of the car's starting mechanism. Since it spun on the workbench, it should spin on the car, and if everything is good then it should turn the flywheel.

Well, it didn't work either. Put the starter in, put the battery connection on. Made the connection with a spare piece of wire and I heard a loud "click" and then nothing.

At this point it almost seems something is making it so it requires too much force to turn the flywheel?

 

So, the solenoid activated... (the loud click) Does it do the same click with the ignition switch activating it? The starter motor is either open circuit (assuming it isn't seized) Does it still run on the bench with no load? or the motor is somehow as you suggested inhibited from turning (wrench on the crank pulley) ? Clutch dragging? (tranny in neutral?) If the engine doesn't spin by hand, perhaps remove the spark plugs and try turning it again...

 

Oddly enough the starter now does not want to run on the bench. I get the same loud click. It had been running there just fine and I tested it after I tried your test when it was in the car and it ran. But immediately after that it didn't want to run on the bench anymore. I got the same loud click once and then nothing after. Not sure if I burnt out this one too?

I saw it suggested somewhere else for a similar problem that a bad ground could be the problem. I used a jumper cable to connect the negative battery terminal to a metal frame on the truck and it sounded like it was trying to spin the wheel, but wasn't really, and didn't sound right. But definitely the most "action" I've heard so far.

When I tried turning the flywheel before I had to use a flathead to pry against the opening to turn it. As I got around the wheel there was a spot where it was much easier to turn than the rest.

 

Worried about how hard it is to turn the flywheel...

I had previously stopped it in the "soft" spot where it was easier to turn to try to help things get going. When I went to try turning it again, I could fairly easily turn by hand. Shortly after though I could not and needed to pry with the flathead. Removed the spark plugs and it didn't make any difference. Can move by prying, but seems harder than it should be.

 

Try putting the jumper cable directly to the transmission housing instead of the frame... You might have a bad connection between the battery (-) and the transmission housing (mine has a separate wire for that, and a separate one for the frame. Ensure your battery (-) is tight and clean, and the lead terminal is not melted a bit from too much current flow from a a bad ground connection...

The engine will have varying degrees of "stiffness" because of compression cycles and valve spring -camshaft positions- removing the plugs should eliminate most of that. However, the engine doesn't seem inhibited so perhaps moving on to the suggestion of a bad ground is a good one to investigate. If you have an ohm meter setting on your voltmeter, checking the resistance of the windings between the old starter and new one (case to positive terminal) would be good to know. The new one may read "open circuit" and this would tell if it is.

 

Ok so I tried the ground connection on the transmission frame and I got nothing, just a faint click. Tested it outside of the truck but connected to the regular wires on a bucket with the battery grounded to the tranny and the starter grounded to the frame. Nothing again. Back on the bench connected to the old truck battery, I get a loud click like it is coming out to engage but it won't spin anymore. After this first click I get nothing but sparks when connecting the two terminals together - only get the click once. Afraid I may not have a viable starter anymore, but it almost seems to work intermittently.

Tried the ohm test. I touched the positive lead to the metal tab on the starter and the other to the housing. I got 02.6 ohm from the new starter and 03.3 on the old.

 

These starters are made by Denso I think. It might be cheapest to take to a dedicated Auto Electrical place and have them see if they can check it out and if damaged, repair it. A lot of cars use Denso alternators and starters so it may not be "oddball". They may also have a gear solution if you take the old starter in to compare... It certainly seems like a starter problem. I ran a new 4 gauge wire (original was about a #6) from the battery to the tranny housing and the starter definitely spun a bit faster. Faster speed means less voltage drop and less current through the starter windings.

 

I have my old truck battery hooked up to the battery tender and will try to externally run the starter again later. I am thinking the battery may have just drained to the point where it's no longer able to run the starter. It makes the loud click and extends but doesn't spin.

If I can get it to go with that battery again then I think it is probably something electrical with the car, maybe even the battery itself. Hoping to run out to a parts store later and have them charge the battery and pick up another battery tender since I mounted my other one in the chicken coop by the driveway yesterday.

 

Hooking up chickens to a charger helps them lay eggs? <g> Who knew!