4wd clicking skipping

Hi all, yet another 4wd question, but this one is about what seems to be something in the transfer case slipping and catching, clicking, skipping. its 1996 s110p dump, it has the high neutral low lever selector in between the seat. it also has a 2" or 2 1/2" lift.

there are some things i need to sort thru with the 4wd. it seems the 4wd switch on the dash doesnt activate or deactivate. but yet when i move the selector into low it goes automatically into 4wd and the dash light indicates as so. i then press the 4wd switch on the dash it will stay in 4wd no mater what.

when i put the selector in high, it is in 2wd and the 4wd dash switch has no effect. it doens not make this noise in high 2wd.

the real problem is the noise and skip/pulsing im getting now in low.

when i first started hearing the noise it sounded to me like a bad motor or transmission mount. almost a hard crunch/clicking noise. would only do it when there seemed to be a hi torque situation. it has progressively gotten worse. ( i am uncertain if it does it in 4wd high as i have been unable to get the truck to go into 4wd when the selector is in high)


I see alot of questions about the 4wd actuators an limit switches etc but i havent seen much on 4wd noises.

At this point Im wondering if there's a stripped spline in the transfer case front drive delivery . or possibly a pinion or worm gear damaged in the front differential.

when i got the truck i changed all the fluids. there was no metal in any of the oils. transfer case an front an rear diff where free of metal shavings or parts. gonna check back.

i am going to d/l the manual over this weekend an brush up on on the 4wd section.


Also, i have yet to see a dump with this well built of a bed. Was it an option or was it made?

thanks in advance

 

With the lift kit, the extra angle of the drive shafts can stress the universal joints and the front half shafts; you might check them if you haven't already for slop, as that can sound harsh...

 

Not familiar with whatever you have but something to consider. Possibly a "stretched " drive chain? The comulative effect of the wear in each pin & bushing could maybe amount to enough "stretch" to allow it to jump one notch at a time like the 216 & 235 chevys used to 'jump time'.

Fred

 

Your bed is the stock heavy dump bed, designed as a dump bed. The light dumps, and the “pick/tip” options use the stock bed and add an extra frame system with the hydraulics. Yours cant be a flat bed, ours can. I hope to find time this summer to make heavier sides and a tail gate for mine next summer, which will let met convert back and forth.

As to your 4wd issues: Have you replaced the vacuum lines? If not do it and see if the problem goes away. 4wd, and the Hi/Low range is controlled with vacuum. If you have leaks it doesn't function right. And, will cut in and out as you describe. It it is trying to go into and out of hi/lo while moving it will are serious noises as it does serious damage.

If it isn’t vacuum, look at the electrical for shorts and opens. The vacuum chambers which engage/disengage the axle locks, and transfer case are controlled with electrically actuated solenoid valves, and will cause the same issues as vacuum leaks.

Do the vacuum lines first, as it is straight forward. Buy a bunch of hose, start at the axle chamber replace the lines to the switches, and head back to the intake manifold replacing the hoses and looking for broken things as you go. Everything is pretty much out where you can see it and replace it.

The electrical runs in hidden spaces that are hard to find and get into, and will take more skill to figure out. So do the easiest and most probable thing first, and see if fixes the problem.

If it is vacuum or electrical it is something which can be troubleshot and easily repaired. Or modified to work. If it is internal to the differentials, transmission/transfer case, you are looking are serious work, and a hard time getting the parts you need.

Please go into your profile and add the information on your truck as your signature line, and if your comfortable doing it, how much mechanical experience you have. It can make a lot of difference how much detail folks need to go into trying to explain things as you have problems.

Welcome aboard, and good luck, Jigs

 

appreciate the input everyone. i will have some time to investigate further in the next few days. If it is something like the vacuum lines or universals or even cv joints that would be a relief. i would imagine sourcing dif or transfer case parts would be time consuming. or if possible, and may require overseas sourcing, Doesnt sound like fun. atleast today we have google translator. I also noticed in the service manual there where quite a bit of differential ratios and transfer cases available. Hoping all my option stamps on the dif and or other tags are legible.

fingers crossed that its a vacuum issue and any of the intermittent actuating has not caused damage!!

Jigs i looked at a few mini trucks an when i saw this dump i knew this was the one. very well built considering its a mini truck an i wouldn't trade it for the 3 way drop side. i sacrificed ac when i saw this truck. we have a wide range of equipment on the farm an this serves its purpose very well. Still gotta tub out the front wheel wells a little more to get my turning radius back.

I'll be at the farm in a day or 2. and 2 more question as im not in front the mini, What size is the vacuum lines 1/8" or 1/4" ? Also, has anyone seen a front receiver hitch installed on a mini? Thinking of installing a front and rear receiver hitch so i could alternate winch positions if needed.

I am quite mechanically inclined and have done service work for many of years. small motor maintenance rebuilds, clutch rebuilds, actuator or limit switch troubleshooting. boiler rebuilds , steam generators, large electrical timer box builds, hydraulic pump rebuilds, diesel motor maintenance. only thing i slightly stay away from is automatic transmissions. external solenoids an filter replacements is about as far as i go. Splittin a dif or transfer case i can handle. But the real problem is allocating the time to troubleshoot and repair when outside influences in life will not slow.

Also, the other day it was cold out 5 deg F. i used the jumper pack to start the tired battery. took 3 or so turn overs to get her to stay running. waited 30 seconds an she was at the choked hi idle.(carb not efi). went back into garage came out like 5 mins later an the idle was at like 3000+ rpms. (no tach just guessing rpm) but way higher then shouldve been

i pulsed the gas pedal an rpm increased. but then went back to the extremely high idle. pulsed pedal a few more times, no difference. shut it down and went back to other project. about an hour later i came back out an it started as normal and slight choked hi idle. not like it was before. waited a min then drove off. no extreme hi idle ever happened since. actuator arm bound up maybe? issue hasnt come back an once warm returned to regular idle


appreciate the input everyone an im glad to be here

 

The vacuum lines I used were 2 and 3-mm ID, mostly the 2-mm. I bought and tried 1-ft pieces of everything at the local CarQuest. None of the imperial sizes was quite right, and I opted to order a few different colors in 2-mm. I tried to coordinate color with functions or nipples on the carb. Black for the manifold vacuum, Yellow first nipple on teh carb, blue second nipple on teh carb, red for all the stuff related to the shifting. On mine it leaves teh intake manifold and goes to a tin-can reservoir, and runs fro there forward and back, it Teed of the line to the rear do feed teh transfer case system, then went ack to teh two valves at the rear axle. The front ran to above the front differential, and then to the two valves there. Be careful when ordering the lines off teh web. I got some that was advertised as 2-mm-ID, which turned out to be 3.5-mmOD with 1.25mm walls, so the ID was 1-mm. Time I figured it out, it was too late to send it back.

 

I find mine is quite sensitive to temperature; I've got it set so that it runs at ~1600rpm to start, dropping to about 1000 ~ 1100 running in summer. At -20*C, it will start after 3 accelerator pumps at about 2400 and quickly drops (4 min) until it reaches about 11oo ~ 950 running. I think the alternator load - heater affects it in winter and the fan coming on in summer. I have my headlight low beams wired as daylight running lights as well and are on all the time.

 

thanks jigs ill have to search for the 2mm id. maybe ebay.

so i had a chance to check the vacuum lines associated with the front differential. looked like there where 3 vac lines going in to the actual differential housing coming from a blue and green solenoid , 2 lines side by side towards the right side of the dif housing before the axle. then one vac line to the left side near the left axle. these vac lines went into the actual differential housing, and not an actuator as ive seen in the manuals.

the rubber lines where clean and still very pliable. i did not see any dry rot or brittle lines what so ever. every plastic tee an plastic split on the vacuum side where tight an strong. almost every vac line had a metal tension clip. the lines where clean and in good shape. unmolested.

before i noticed ,the truck held a supply vac for a solid 15min after i had shut it off, maybe it was held longer before i started working on it. long day and by then i was working and active for 12/14hrs.

with the motor off and key in the on position i started pressing the 4wd button seeing if i could hear anything actuating etc etc. notta
i noticed a solenoid or both solenoids where warm, i cannot say what solenoid (blue or green) was actuating from neutral to low. if i had to guess only the blue. i could only hear the vac surge when i went from neutral into low, an then low back into neutral. at the time it was quite in the garage, and no lines where hissing or leaking while engaged. so it seemed to hold vac just fine. after watching and listening and messing around eventually the vac supply had diminished. i called it a day. the manual i had left me with more questions then it could answer.

now the manual i grabbed here didnt have anything on those solenoids and or very little on any electrical. think i need to find a better manual. i believe it was the green connector solenoid had a stamp on it
89570-87512
084800-2150
denso

off to find another manual...

 

You might invest in one of the hand held vacuum pumps. That lets you apply vacuum to specific ports and see what happens, and confirm whether things do what you think they should. Also, if you get a quirt bottle, you can spray vacuum lines to see if leaks go away when you wet them. Sometimes a huge help in locating the leaks.

 

Looking for some advice to help persuade my decision making.

So ive still put this off from repairing. Now the PTO or the hydraulic pump has stopped working. And i cannot lift the dump to get in there like i used to.

the first issue with dump It started lifting slowly. then it wouldn't lift to max height. now wont lift at all. I believe the hydraulic hose cracked and leaked fluid out. and now pump is pulling air. and air doesn't compress like fluid. Unless something in the transfer case let go. 2wd still works fine.

There is always so much going on,or im chasing money or new jobs and trying not to loose the farm, literally. And then not working on these on a regular basis, i tend to have to reteach myself what i once knew and now don't remember. hell i reread my posts from above and had multiple oh that's right moments. time is not on my side and everytime i turn around something else is more important and needs attention.

my JD loader got water in the oil & pulled the motor, need to tare down and assess and rebuilds. my f450 new transmission with 4k miles started shifting weird. my tdi needs a new intercooler, belts, smog pump, abs an traction control cpu keeps getting intermittent communication issues. Military 6x6 cummins head still needs to be put back together. Wifes MB glk250 bluetec i got all apart for new front end control arms and brakes all around. kumatsu pc35 Excavator blew 2 hoses. Barn needs to be shored up some before it wants to walk away from the house. The House skylight started leaking the other day(man ididnt want skylights on the house in the first place, but it was all about the land an not the house). And i got about 3 cords of wood to split an im starting to see first signs of leaf change...... F Me, it doesnt stop!! but enough of that i guess.

Anyone have any insight on the pto for the hydraulic lift? now that i cant lift the bed im trying to remember where the hydraulic pump got its fluid. is the transfer case oil separate from the 5sp manual transmission?

Wondering if my next bet is to pull the transfer case and split it. BUt where the hell do i find parts?? Before writing this i spent about 4 hrs online going thru websites and foreign websites looking for transfer case and or 4wd parts. Im afraid if i pull this apart i wont be able to find parts. Ive tried yokohomaparts or something spelled that way. he didnt have a transfer case with pto.

If i was to find a transfer case without pto, can i remove mine and add it to the other transfer case?

So looking for some advice on the transfer case internals.....

Just d/l the full s110p Japanese manual, going thru the painstaking google translate process.

thanks guys!!

 

On my 92 Hijet, I have gone through several transmission mounts because I use my truck for trail crawling in low range 1st and 2nd gear. Because of the gearing from transmission, transfer case and differentials there is a lot of torque force applied to the rear mount, 3,584.7 foot pounds of torque in low range first gear to be exact. I can tell when the mount is shot because of the growling noise as the transfer case grounds out on the crossmember, and often clicking noise as well as it hits the mount to frame housing.
As others mentioned, it may be a transfer case chain stretch. I have 128,00o+ kilometers on my truck and no transfer case problems. The 4x4 high range switch is often a problem, take it out and spray a switch cleaner into it and tighten up the connection.

 

Finally getting into issues. so far ive found 2 things.

1) the left side front cv boot is damaged. i will get into that later .

2) getting into the Japanese manual i spent some time translating the diagrams and schematics, things not found in other 4wd trouble shooting guides. after checking vsv solenoids, vacuum lines, various transfer case switches an position switches ,ive determined that the front internal 4wd actuator does not hold a vacuum.

the transfer case is providing power to the front drive shaft, but power is not delivered outside the front diff to the cv axles. the symptom now ( on jack stands) is the front cv axles just slowly pulse forward. i cant remember now if one was clockwise and other side turned counter.

Being on jack stands, and i couldn't find if my transfer case tag, so i couldn't tell if mine was the " part time 4wd" or " multi select" or "multi select cut & tumble" (whatever cut an tumble means from translation) any ides anyone ???

for shits an giggles i sucked on the 4wd vacuum line to the front diff an i could not get it to build vacuum, an at the same time i could taste the gear lube vapor!! So seems like the diaphragm in there or a seal or 2 is shot. somehow the seal is pulling in air from the gear fluid.

on jack stands, what the 4wd activated just pulse powers the front cv axles.

cv axle an front differential coming off soon. draining diff oil first to see if theres any metal shavings. i actually have a new cv axle for both sides i bought awhile ago.

but now i need to figure if the 4wd actuator just needs seals or a new diaphragm . or if its failure caused damage to the front differential as well.

Any insight to the s110p with INTERNAL actuator ?? Parts location?

thanks all

 

Hi Dale

thanks fro the responses, i appreciate it!

so i did check transmission mounts and like you mentioned, i too hear the growling noise. So not only has something failed in the front diff 4wd actuator, and or diff, i also need transmission mounts.

For the transmission mounts, any crossover part numbers? A heavy duty mod? There has to be a similar mount off the shelf at one of these 10 autoparts stores i have withing a 10 mile radius. or online, im patient to order an wait. Any thoughts?

Now i gotta find front differential actuator parts. been having trouble finding a rebuild kit, or crossover parts.

Ive been using the japenese service manual an translator as a guide

appreciate any input

 

Just a general comment on the 4 wheel drive system - since we are here. 4 wheel drive is actuated by engine vacuum through several VSV switches. These switches have foam filters to prevent dirt entering the system, and , being engine vacuum activated, there is a small oil scent. Small wasps ( mud daubers ) are attracted to this scent and tend to lay eggs inside the small openings around these filters and pack them full of mud to protect the eggs - this reduces or blocks the filters causing poor, or no, shifts. If you are experiencing any problems with shifting - check these filters. I chased this ghost for a year before I found the problem.

Cheers

 

@bobjonah thanks for the heads up. I appreciate the response. i haven't seen the actual filter breakdown in the vsv section of the service manual. or i overlooked the design and wasn't realized there is a filter , somehow in that sing vsv diagram. or it didnt translate properly to english in text.

i will have to keep this in mind an look deeper. I have to look at that again, first thing that pops in my head is why a VSV would be open to atmosphere. or is it that the outside of the vsv solenoid plunger is exposed, an the exterior of the plungers movement can get hindered by mud?

Either way, when a new vac house was attached and manually applying vacuum to the 4wd port on the front diff actuator, it would not hold a vacuum or even a restricted flow partial vacuum. nor with the 2wd port plugged or open to atmosphere. The air flow was a Straight constant flow tasting like gear oil vapor, not motor oil. So somewhere its not sealing. An looking at the front diff diagram, and copy and pasting with translating to english, words can get jumbled. So this leads me to next question. Where is the vacuum seal initiated in the actuator portion.

In Japanese Hijet service manual that is offered here, s100p - s130v 1993/4 , think manual part #JS411K

Page 474 , Diagram SSK2001, Of the front differential, its tough to pinpoint which area actual makes the seal to allow the differential clutch to slide into place. My first thought is diagram part #5 oil seal.

the front diff has no external oil leaks anywhere i noticed.

Also, in another front differential thread here @dale hynes mentioned shimming, or welding to create a locked differential. I will attempt this as well. I just gotta get this diff case dropped and split. the Front end is all apart, cv axles out, and i got like like 12 more bolts to remove an drop the diff. then i can put the diff on the work bench an split.


Found the left side cv axle outer boot damaged. then when i went to remove the cv axle, the inner side of the cv axle "universal joint and bearings and cog" came apart. appears the inner locking ring didn't hold, or something snapped. i wasn't in the mood to clean up the grease and diagnose right then. I absolutely cant stand the smell of bearing grease or 80-90 weight oil. i will bath in diesel or gas all day before i jump into 80-90weight.

I have new cv axles on hand already.

Anyone have any experience with shimming the differential clutch? I m ready....

thanks for participating

 

There is no clutch. The left side of the diff has a tiny sub axle, the cv connects to a second stub axle. There is a splined collar that gets pulled over the two shafts via the vacuum to connect them. The collar acts like a giant piston.

You can pull the cv axle out, then unbolt the entire side of the diff with the actuator, hopefully just the orings on the collar are bad.

If someone trys to engage or disengage the 4wd while turning on a hard surface, the entire splined collar can break.

 

Man i really dragged this repair out.

But, hopefully all is repaired, and coming to some closure. So for anyone reading....

Things i found damaged, Passenger side cv axle broken at first universal near differential.
Driver side diff 4wd/2wd actuator that moves the 4wd spline collar had quite abit of white corrosion in the piston assembly. Cleaned assembly and lubed with silicon brake grease. Slides very nice now. Can hear the piston assembly moving air when pushed by hand.

I noticed the carrier bearings in the diff may have spun at one point. However they rolled just fine. So i took the bearing collars to the local machine shop an they removed 1 /1000th from the collar to allow the collar to close a little tighter.

I ended up welding the front differential. I cut and welded in some 1/4 plate into what i think what is called the "pinion gear" area. Made sure when i fabricated and welded the old cv axles where in place to prevent any splatter from adhering to cv/drive shaft splines. Hopefully this will prevent me from getting stuck a few less times.

replaced some of the harder vacuum hoses.

With truck up in the air. the 4wd is now engaging and disengaging.

Also found the 4wd switch on the dash was disconnected. this explains why i only had 4wd in low gear, and not high gear. The truck automatically engages 4wd when placed into low.

Now i gotta finish assembling the front end, rotate the tires, add some oil to the diff and hopefully this is all done.

Next project, sandblasting and rhino liner painting the truck

 

If you welded the front diff you're now always in 3wd. The transfer case is always in 4wd, so the driveshaft always spins to the front. Welding the diff makes the driver front always engaged.

Make sure you never engage or disengage the 4wd while moving now that the front diff is welded. You will damage the ends of the splines because there is no play in the diff, and it's always under power. Onces the splines are damaged, the collar won't engage completely. This will strip the end of the shaft eventually.

 

Ionstorm , Not sure what your talking about.

When I tested mine In 2wd with all 4 tires off the ground, the front wheels do not spin under power. I can rotate them backwards as well.

4wd they all spun

I drove thru some light mud in 2wd an only the rears will spin.

Both tires do rotate the same direction now when spun by hand

I did notice there where 3 different transfer cases in the Japanese manual.