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Please help

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by bmwr71, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Hello boys and girls. I have a problem. For years I have wanted a Kei truck. I first saw them at a National Farm Machinery Show 20 years or more ago and I was impressed, especially by the custom ones displayed. Over the years, I have watched them on fleabay and on Craig's list and looked at different dealers and such and just couldn't justify buying one in my mind because they were not allowed to be licensed in my state, Kentucky.

    Eventually, there was a specific law passed in Kentucky that treats the Kei trucks like ATVs. It specifies that the only way a Kei truck can be used on public roads is if it is being used for farm or construction work or for snow removal and must have one of those slow moving vehicle triangles on it. Believe if I remember correctly that local county clerk offices can decide to license them.

    Not long ago, found a vendor claiming that their trucks could be licensed all around the country (but check with your local government masters) and that their trucks were titled as pickups and not mini trucks. I had already in the past been in contact with the county clerk's office director regarding the mini trucks and was told no way to license them, but I decided to try again with the new information with the title and the historic age. This time she said there may be a way. After supplying her info and a copy of an example title, she said she could license one for me because there was authority given to local governments for exceptions. Soooo, hopefully one hurdle past to get to a licensed mini. And also called my insurance company and was told no problem insuring one. Second barrier breached.

    I am still afraid of spending the money on one of these trucks. I own some old Chinese army motorcycles (knockoffs of a BMW R71, the name I used here) and some Russian ones and I well know the problems of owning oddball vehicles. I fear buying a mini truck and finding that parts are difficult to get, information is difficult to get, and they aren't really practical to use as a long term daily driver. I need to know if they are easy or difficult to work on, parts are not difficult to get and will be available in the future, and in general they are fine for daily driving and therefore are practical to own and depend on?????

    I know several businesses sell these trucks. There is one maybe a 45 minute drive from where I live, but they say their trucks are not able to be licensed. As I have jumped through the hoops with the info and title from this one vendor, it seems the safe way to go is to buy from them????? But like the seller not far from me suggested I look to Tennessee as they title the kei trucks, but that just may mean new hurdles to jump. So the seller I worked with has the trucks and vans coming and going and I want to figure out if one of these is really for me so when the right one is in their inventory, I can jump and buy it. And that is where you friends come in, please make me knowledgeable and confident in a decision.

    I have tried looking through this site to get the info I need. Have seen several warnings with the skull and cross bones about searching before asking, and at least I can comment that I think the practicality of owning one of these trucks can change over time as say people find new parts sources or parts sources close or dry up. I saw one post about buying info and when I looked, all I saw where the comments about how good the post was, but the original post was just dots. I did notice that the Suzuki Carry seemed to have the most participants and the most posts and that makes me wonder if that indicates that the Carry is the one to buy?????? But like that seller I have dealt with claimed that the Carry is popular due to ignorance and not what is best to own. At this moment, the salesman is pushing me towards a Mitsubishi mini cab.

    So please inform me so I can make a decision and get on with my life. Which one is the best to own???? Which one is easy to work on, has great parts availability, is durable and reliable, good gas mileage, easy to find info and help on, and is all around the most practical to own and drive and maintain?

    I have also considered the van. I must wonder if the Kentucky law on mini trucks would be claimed to apply to the mini van? After talking with the state answer woman on tech issues like that, seems she is the kind that "no" is the easiest answer to give and that is what she does versus taking the time to research the questions.

    Doug
     
  2. Nutcracker

    Nutcracker New Member

    First, make sure that you can easily source out the parts for your chosen vehicle - carry truck or minivan. Second before buying you should have somewhat a crash course on engine troubleshooting so you don't end up buying a vehicle with an engine that needs to be overhauled in the first place for it to run smoothly. What I mean is that you should know how to pick the good ones out. I'm from the Philippines and we refer to them as multicab/kei truck/scrum van etc and it is very popular in my country because it is practical to use. I already own a minivan for business and family use. Bought it at 69k in pesos or around 1k $ more or less and I think I already spent around 1k $ more to replace all the bad parts including engine overhaul, tires/magwheels, cooling system, headlight bulbs. Mine comes without power steering so I bought one and have it installed for 10$. Also the airconditioning system is old and planning to replace it that will cost around 350$. At around 2k $ I have learned a lot from my experience and now have a minivan that at the most can last another 10 years or so. Mine was a carb type with manual tranny btw because I think this is much easier to maintain if you know how it works compared to computer based with lot of sensors that breaks down easily.
     
  3. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Thanks for the advice. I asked the dealer about parts supplies and was told parts are no problem for any of the trucks they sell. I asked what if they went out of business if parts would be a problem and he replied that they were not going out of business. So I said to pretend they went out of business if I would have trouble getting parts and he said getting parts is no problem. He is also trying to sell a truck to me. Would expect he wouldn't say parts are a problem so don't buy.

    Doug
     
  4. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    Working on one is not really any different than working on a Honda civic or Toyota Corolla. Room is tight, but just about everything makes sense. Most parts can be found either by cross referencing on this site, or by several regional suppliers. In rare cases you might have to wait 10-12 days if you have to order from Japan. As far as the best to own, it really comes down to what you want to do with it.
     
  5. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Thanks for your comments. My plan is to use the truck as a daily driver, haul some stuff, and also do some off roading, especially as a utility vehicle. I am not too worried about comfort, but don't want one that is too uncomfortable to the point of bordering on painful. And I pretty much do everything on vehicles myself except say a front end alignment. So does any of this narrow down the choices?
     
  6. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    Well I'm biased, but the Sambar is really quiet with the engine in the rear, has 4 wheel independent suspension and I think if I had to daily drive it, it would be one of the best. Off road is decent (better with diff lock), but if you want big lifts and tires, then a solid axle carry or hi jet might be a better option for you. My $0.02 and I only have driven the hi jet and Sambar. There are some good threads stickied on these type decisions, and I'd recommend you read as many as you can before making a decision.
     
  7. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Thanks again for the advice. Any advice on finding the threads you mentioned?

    The dealer guy from the place that I have been talking with says that on the Sambar there is a possibility of say a rock hitting the engine and maybe busting the crankcase if like one went in a rocky hole and the rear end bottomed out and hit the rocks so they went past some mounting bar. And I can't call them anti-Sambar as they sell them.

    One attraction of these trucks is the 4wd for snow driving. Perhaps it would be an advantage to have the engine near the drive wheels just like an old air cooled V Dub.

    I was thinking on a truck like the Mitsubishi Mini Cab that I was told that one accesses the engine under the seats about some problems with that. I remember the old days of riding around with my partying buddies in old vans that had a hump that opened to the engine between the seats. Meant some heat getting in and also gas and oil smells if there were any leaks. Wondered if that was possible with that Mini Cab?

    One temptation with this Mini Cab is that it is very low miles according to the dealer.
     
  8. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    I know the rear engine really helps with 2wd traction. I've heard good things about the Mitsubishi, but I've never seen one in person. All those threads are usually stickied at the top of each subject like this one.
     
  9. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Seems I got very few responses of sage advice. Does that mean that there aren't very many people that actually use this board, not really very many people who drive the trucks, my question is boring, or what?

    So I saw one Sambar here, what other trucks are you guys driving? Do you think they make good daily drivers? Are yours easy to work on and get parts for? What do you like and dislike about your trucks?
     
  10. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    While there aren't a ton of people active on this board, the ones that are have been very helpful to me. Some check in regularly, some pop in every once in a while. All the questions you are asking have been discussed in previous threads and an hour or so of reading will really catch you up to speed. Of course you will get arguments for and against just about every one of them. My dislikes - Constantly being asked about my truck or being photographed, needs 10 more hp. My likes - great turning radius, bed space, fuel economy, and quiet. There are people that love to daily drive them, but I prefer having a crumple zone in front of me.
     
  11. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    So does that mean you do not use yours much for street driving? Do you think any are safer than others?

    I have spent quite a bit of time looking at this site and others to get to know what my opinion should be. Very time consuming, and like asking which oil is best, seems many opinions. Like I watched a video from a dealer who said he did not sell cab overs because that made the cab too hot. Hope when I buy that I don't realize I could have done better.

    I was told my a Canadian dealer that he thought the trucks were too slow for road use, especially the automatic vans. Your comment on the 10 more horse power, are these really too slow for road use?

    Regarding the being asked and such, I do dread that. Used to drive VW Things as daily drivers and was even pulled over by cop and told how his father had one when he was a kid and such. And even one day, had a police copter hovering around it in a parking lot while passengers were checking that one out. Also rode a Harley chopper with similar experiences. Hated being told I only rode it to get recognition when I only built it and rode it because I liked it.
     
  12. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    American ownership of kei cars remains extremely rare, and kei trucks/vans are a smaller subset of that. So if you are used to there being a huge, thriving online community of fellow English-speaking enthusiasts who all drive the same kind of car, you are going to have to adjust to a different reality. Sometimes you're going to post about something and not get the responses you'd hoped for.

    My Sambar does highway speeds without issue. 120 km/hr. The engine revs very high but it doesn't overheat.

    They are fundamentally not very safe vehicles, at least the 1980's and early 1990's models that can be street legal in the US right now. No airbags, no crumple zones. Super thin walls. The manufacturers were given dimensional limitations and they had to work within those. If they had made them super safe they would have been super cramped inside and not useful for anything. I'm told modern kei cars now have to conform to all the same safety regulations as regular cars, so they have become significantly more expensive. But it'll be a decade before you can drive those in the US. Having said all that, mine is pretty much my daily driver. I choose to live with the risk because the van makes me happy and you only live once.

    Availability of parts seems to be quite a bit better than you might think. There are numerous websites dedicated to supplying JDM and kei car parts.

    You should check if there is an import broker in this state. They can shepherd you through the process of getting the car legally registered. My local DMV was worse than useless when I showed up with my big stack of paperwork. They had never tried to register a car imported from Japan and were not only clueless but very unpleasant and uncooperative. I gave the same paperwork to my broker and it was all sorted out within a week.

    Another potential option if your state's laws are unfavorable could be to import the car in a neighboring state with better laws, then transfer it to your state. Again, an import broker will greatly lubricate this process.

    I can sympathize with Ohkei's comment about constantly being asked about it. I'm getting pretty tired of explaining what it is. I catch people photographing and taking videos of me on a regular basis which I don't mind too much honestly. Still, it's fun to drive something really unusual. A whole school bus of kids drove by me the other day and every one of the kids' faces was in the window looking at me and waving and smiling. I made those kids' day and they made mine. Plus, you get good at giving people the quick 10-second cliff notes explanation and politely excusing yourself if you aren't in the mood to talk about it all day.
     
  13. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    I drove mine on the road in the city for about a month, and it was fun as long as I was under 50mph. I didn't feel comfortable about hitting anything and surviving over that. The 10 more hp really was just having to downshift on hills that I thought I could make, again my perspective but I could go 70mph if I didn't feel like I was going to die (but if you ride a Harley, you might be immuned to that fear). My goal was to make mine a hunting truck that would be kind to the camp trails and stay enclosed from the weather. I drove an International Scout from the time I was 18 until I was in my early 40's. When I was 18, hell yeah it was a great daily driver (when gas was $1/gallon). I'm now an old guy, so no, it's not a daily driver, you feel every bump in those leaf springs.. Again, everyone has their own perspective and just because one person says it is, another can say it isn't, and they could both be 100% correct. If you are primarily highway, I'd recommend a Sambar. Supercharged if you can get it.
     
    Reese Allen likes this.
  14. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Thanks again for the information.

    I was going to comment that these little trucks had to at least be safer than riding a motorcycle. At least not being as invisible as riding a bike. And if one wanted to, they could still wear a brain bucket and drive a little truck.

    The dealer I was most likely going to buy from is in Florida and sells the trucks with a Florida title. He says they are classified as pickup trucks, PT, and not mini trucks, MT, as that is the way they were imported. That all sounded like a better way of getting past the license dictators. In my state, there is a specific law on mini trucks that treats them like they treat ATVs, only can be driven on the road for farm, construction, or snow removal. Must have a slow moving triangle, can't use at night except for snow removal, can't drive on the expressway (but the local police use them as they please). I had asked in the past about trying to get around that and was turned down. But then when I saw the over 25 year thing and the titled as a pickup, I emailed the local county clerk's office and after the director saw an example title, she said I could license one. So I was about to buy a Mitsubishi mini cab with 5100 miles on it from them and figured I had better ask the state if they agreed that she could give me permission to license one. They said no, wouldn't even listen to any other details. So I emailed back to the director and told her what they said and also asked her what they consider a mini truck as the law has no definition. She asked how fast they would go, which we had already discussed in the past, and I told her the dealer said 73 mph and have not heard back from her. And the Mini Cab has already sold. But they still have more trucks.

    I imported 2 Chinese army motorcycles from China. One was disassembled before shipping and was imported as parts. The other was imported with the over 25 years old thing. Supposedly an individual can do the paperwork themselves but the local Customs would not allow me to do it. Wondered if they rely on the broker to do the correct process. Never got around to licensing either one. I asked at one point about what paperwork I needed and was told a title from China. I said I had one for the bike brought in over 25 yrs old and obviously it was in Chinese and was told I needed to bring an interpreter with me. I showed the Chinese document to some Chinese guys that worked at a Chinese restaurant and they said what I had was a registration and not a title. Anyway, guess they are still around, but at lest used to be title services in some states where titles are easy to get. Spect if I ever get a chance to fool with those bikes again, will just try to find a title service to get a title.

    I have been told that Tennessee titles these trucks. Would be tempting to look there as it is closer, but I was hoping that the Florida title with the truck designated as a pickup would get past hurdles. Not giving up yet.
     
    Redgap likes this.
  15. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    Yeah, definitely see if you can get a broker. They will know how to deal with foreign language documents and all the other mundane details.
     
  16. trktrd

    trktrd Active Member

    I have two registered daily drivers. Acty truck and Sambar van. Definitely use an import broker. Small price to pay for all the red tape they have to go through. Keep in mind that the import duty is 25 percent on trucks and 2.5 on cars. Makes a big difference on the bottom line. My van cost more than the Acty but ended up costing less than the truck once all was said and done.
     
    Reese Allen likes this.
  17. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    I have seen places that are supposedly selling the trucks out of Japan. Seems cheap, but know there is shipping involved and who knows what other fees. The first Chinese army motorcycle I bought from China was from the aircraft factory that was still making them at the time. I had no trouble at all and don't remember using a broker, it just showed up at the customs house, Forward Air, and I hauled it off. The second one was a nightmare with unforeseen fees and delays. It was sent to me by an American guy who lived in China and had a shop selling the bikes. I had some great luck before buying parts from him and he would come to visit family in the US a couple times a year and he would bring parts with him saving on shipping. On the motorcycle, too long a time and it was bounced around to various warehouses, which each had a fee, and then had to get the broker. Found out that one of the big delays was that this guy didn't have an export license and he was using a port to ship out of that let people export illegally for a price and that port was closed for a while due to some local civil unrest. And then when I got the motorcycle home, my bike that was supposedly rebuilt and was ready for miles of happy riding didn't run and had several mechanical problems and a sidecar full of cracked Bondo. So buying straight from Japan is somewhat scary. I also still wonder if the Florida company importing them as pickups and not mini trucks will make a difference.

    I assume you are not saying to use a broker for vehicles already imported?
     
  18. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    Use the broker to facilitate getting the vehicle from the port to your driveway and a title and registration into your hands. If the car is already in the US and someone has successfully registered it that is the easiest option but probably the most expensive, and you'll have fewer options to choose from.

    When you find the car you are interested in on a Japanese dealer's website, you arrange for them to ship it to a port in the vicinity of your import broker, and have the Japanese dealer get in touch with your broker. Your broker can pick the car up for you when it arrives and then handle the paperwork. You may need to go to the port city or the import broker's lot to pick up the car and drive it home, or you could have it trucked out to where you live. I'm not sure exactly how the logistics would work with you being in the middle of the country. I live an hour from a busy port so it was a non-issue for me.
     
  19. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Living near the Ohio River, there is a Port of Louisville where there is a customs house at Forward Air near the airport. I saw that the one dealer in Japan was way cheaper than buying from US sellers, but I sent them an email and got no response. Might need to call a broker and see what they have to say. Would still need to figure out the whole buying from Japan thing. And still no word back from the county clerk's office. Perhpas the director lady just hopes I go away.
     
  20. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    You'll likely have to do a wire transfer to the Japanese dealer. There are many that specialize in exporting to the US so they will know what to do. The first thing I would do is get a broker, they can help you make bids at Japanese auctions or find reputable dealers you can buy from. I tried to win one at auction first but got outbid really badly. A few weeks later I saw my van on a dealer's site and bought it from them directly.

    Keep in mind that the majority of your costs are going to come from the actual importation process. The vehicle itself is usually cheap. I posted the breakdown in another thread in this forum but to summarize, the sticker price on mine was only $1,750 but I had to spend an additional $3,500 on shipping, broker fees, and registration. The cost of the car was almost exactly 1/3 of the total cost.
     
  21. matt167

    matt167 Active Member

    I bought a truck from a US dealer, and overpayed by a lot, probably double vs getting one from Japan and doing the waiting game.. That truck was a 1992 Suzuki Carry 5spd. Little under $6k. it needed a clutch eventually but I daily drove it for over a year. I sold it when it became unreliable due to carburator and electrical system issues, but I had also just bought the replacement vehicle which was/ is a 1993 Suzuki Jimny 660 tin top ( Samurai in USA but there are big differences )..

    The total cost of my Jimny exported was $1,700 from Beforward.jp . Import broker costs and customs costs added about $1k to that and then I had it shipped to me from the port. So all told I was around 3k, but the going rate in the USA is $4,500+
    Now my truck DID come with a blown up turbocharger that I did not know about. I elected to purchase a new/ used complete engine since an importer had one cheap enough. My trucks lot cost was $611 so I can't expect too much..

    Now after having a DD Kei truck, and the Jimny is finally going together. I can tell that owning the Jimny makes a lot more sense for a DD and the reason is that you can cross parts to USA counterparts. Brakes are available ( canada spec SJ413 ), the timing belt is the same as a 1.6L in the Suzuki X90. tires/ wheels while different. will fit a 205/70/16 and Falken makes a sweet Wildpeak A/T Trail tire in that size..

    Now as far as what really fits something like the Suzuki Carry... The timing belt might be the same as the one in the Jimny ( and thus available ) but I'd have to look.. 14x5.5" wheels can be found and 155 or 165/65/14 tires can be found although the only 'real' tires you will find are Nokian snow tires at this point. Nankang, Achillies and Federal tires exist in those sizes but they are garbage tires.. as for why that size tire. The OD is the same as 145 R12 at 155 wide, and 165 wide is only marginally taller..
    I went through 2 sets of brake pads I got from the phillipines as the first set did not fit correctly. The locator pins didn't line up.. Shift cable broke, and I had to pony up $150 to get a new side to side cable... All in all, it's a novel truck and I miss it but a daily driver, it just wasn't practical.
     
  22. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Are there any consistent problems with the four wheel drive on these trucks or was the seller just lying?

    This evening went to look at a 1990 Mitsubishi 3 speed 2wd left hand drive with mph gauge truck. The seller claimed that he was told by a local mini truck dealer that sells them for off road only and at a high price that the four wheel drive on them was a problem and to avoid those. But he later did change the story to be that he was told by the guy that the 4wd parts on some mini truck had a noise and was told to avoid it. Sounds like two different tales.

    I will say that from driving it, I see that it could be a daily driver, maybe not real comfortable, but a way to get around town. I could also see that working on it wouldn't be a big deal as it seemed that one could get at the parts. So I hope that the county clerk director will find away that I can license one. I also took my friend that owns a few acres and allows me to store cars there and maybe I might get one just to play around with out there.

    While driving this one, was on a bumpy gravel road so the ride wasn't smooth. Good thing it was a gravel road with no traffic as it seemed I was having trouble braking. I thought at first that somehow with those small pedals with close spacing that I was missing the brake pedal. But I realized that all it was was the brake pedal going to the floor with no stopping the truck. And like on the gas pedal, it would have the lever drop down behind it and then that pedal would go to the floor and would need to lift the pedal up and get the lever back in place. I could repair both, but perhaps a better truck would be better. The odometer said like 17500 miles. I asked if that was the original mileage and the seller said he didn't know. He had a title that he had like 4 yrs that he never had transferred to his name and it said at the time of transfer, 35000 miles on the truck. Another mystery for that truck.

    So it made me know I want one and can fit in one, but still have to wonder which one would be best? Will try sometime to run out to the dealer and see what is there, but think there are maybe 8 trucks there and it is like an hour or more drive away and I won't be buying there.
     
  23. matt167

    matt167 Active Member

    Avoid Mitsubishi in general IMO. LHD with mph speedometer was a USA import grounds vehicle ( speed limited, never road legal ).. And no, there is no real issue with the 4x4 he was trying to upsell his 2wd.. Some of these trucks use a control unit ecu that can go bad and 4x4 won't work ( I know Suzuki does ). But it can be bypassed with extra switches or replaced if it does
     
  24. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Thanks again. You are helping me to become an informed buyer.

    This guy was putting on the hard sell, like the deal that if I didn't buy right then that someone would be buying it the next day.
     
  25. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    Back after days after being told no by the state vehicle license people. I emailed the info to the county clerk's office director and she sent back the stae law regarding mini trucks in Kentucky, KRS189.517. I read it again and that brought questions to mind. It speaks of rules and prohibitions for mini trucks and it defines a mini truck as a Kei class truck, but there is no definition of what a kei class truck is so that became a question of hwo they can denie a road license for something with no definition. It also doesn't say anything about kei vans or cars and therefore it brought the question if these are affected by that law. I also wanted to know if it made any difference that the trucks sold were brought in under the federal 25 yr and older rules that make exemptions from safety and emissions standards and it it made any difference that the trucks from the dealer I have been communicating with had titles for his trucks that called them pickups and not mini trucks.

    I called the state agency again and got to a woman I had spoke to before that was their contact on that particular law. I asked her my questions and she could not answer them. She told me to email the director of the agency and get his word. The following is his replay and he does not answer my questions and I wonder what information you guys may have that pertains to what he wrote?

    Currently, the state of Kentucky does not title nor register mini-trucks (also known as Kei-class and Japanese mini-trucks). As you might be aware, the Kentucky General Assembly tried unsuccessfully through House Bill 421 in 2010 and House Bill 356 in 2011 to allow mini-trucks to be titled and registered. Additionally, the other reasons we are not allowing mini-trucks to be titled and registered are as follows:


    · Mini-trucks were approved to be imported into the United States for agricultural purposes only. To that effect, please note that KRS 186A.080(5) exempts vehicles used for the implement of husbandry from title and registration.

    · KRS 189.517(2) states that “except as provided in subsection (5) of this section, a person shall not operate a mini-truck upon any public highway or roadway or upon the right-of-way of any public highway or roadway”.

    · Mini-trucks Manufacturers’ Certificate of Origins designate them as Off-road vehicles.

    · Mini-trucks do not comply with U.S. vehicle air pollutant emissions standards. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a bulletin in 2009 warning states that mini-trucks may be in violation of the Clean Air Act.

    · Mini-trucks were not designed to be operated on North American roadways. Allowing their operation introduces into the conventional traffic mix vehicles with questionable stability and crash protection.

    · The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) issued its final ruling on January 10, 2011, advising that mini-trucks should not be licensed to operate upon public highways.

    · Likewise, the American Insurance Institute for Highway Safety on its May 20, 2010 publication, warns states not to allow mini-trucks on public highways because they were not manufactured to meet safety standards for public highway use.

    · The state of Florida may have a specific language in their statute that permits mini-trucks to be titled. I am not aware of any Kentucky statutes that authorizes us to license mini-trucks.


    Because mini-trucks do not meet FMVSS/CMVSS standards of vehicle design and safety, do not meet emission standards, were not designed to be operated on North American public highways, and were not approved by the Kentucky General Assembly for public highway use, we cannot title and register them at this time.

    If you have additional questions, please don’t hesitate to call me or send me an email.


    Thank you and have a great day.
     
  26. matt167

    matt167 Active Member

    Mini trucks used to be able to be imported as ag vehicles well before they were 25 years old. They were generally speed limited and Mitsubishi even shipped LHD versions here as grounds vehicles in the 1990's..

    However, in 1988 The USA FMVSS\ Federal DOT created a standard that any vehicle that was 25 years or older is compliant with Federal DOT regulations through exemption. This means that any vehicle, 25 years or older that was designed for road use 'somewhere' will be eligible to put on the road according to the US DOT.. This is also where things get muddy. Most states know these mini trucks from before any of them were federally legal, but around 2015 when the good ones ( 660cc ) became available for road legal import, not every agency is up to snuff on the legality. Where this guy keeps putting " Mini truck " is correct only if it is 24 years or newer.. 25 years or older, and imported as an exempt motor vehicle on the FMVSS HS7 document and it's not a "Mini truck", it's a federally exempt motor vehicle. He put "Because mini-trucks do not meet FMVSS/CMVSS standards of vehicle design and safety, do not meet emission standards, were not designed to be operated on North American public highways, and were not approved by the Kentucky General Assembly for public highway use, we cannot title and register them at this time."

    Tell this guy to read bullitin #7 https://www.nhtsa.gov/importing-vehicle/importation-and-certification-faqs. it's from the NHTSA and covers the FMVSS issue he relayed. And that your interested in titling a federally legal exempt motor vehicle, it is not a mini truck.
    If you still can't get them to play ball after that. License in Vermont and transfer later to your state
     
    Ohkei Dohkei likes this.
  27. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    That is a question he failed to answer, the law says a mini truck is a kei class truck but it does not define what a kei class truck is. In law, if a word is not defined by some law contained language, then one looks at the common dictionary meaning. I saw on the Net from Merium Webster dictionary that kei is a type of apple. Clearly I do not want to license an apple. I also see he did not address the 25 yrs or older exemptions and I asked him about it again and await some response.

    And I asked about the trucks for sale that had titles that called them pickup trucks and not mini trucks and he also conveniently did not answer my question. I told him I would probably get some answer regarding "policy", which is essentially rules just made up and not real law. Instead of reading about policy, I just got no answers to my questions. Perhaps I got what he wrote because I told him how the county clerk's office director said the law was incomplete because it did not have information of why the trucks were prohibited from licensing with info about fatalities or insurance companies refusing to insure the trucks or pay claims.
     
  28. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    Kei does refer to specification such as a maximum standard size in Japan. I think I would go the route Matt suggested rather than worry about the "Kei" term and just explain that it is 25 years old and therefore exempt. I doubt you'll get anywhere, but it might be worth a try.
     
  29. matt167

    matt167 Active Member

    I did some digging in Kentucky for you. Looks like the import law for the state was created in 1986 and never revised. However the written law, states that if you can get the paperwork proving that it is legal with EPA and DOT ( which is on the HS7 form, and the EPA form that you need from customs ), all you need is a statement from the manufacture on origin which I know some states do, however Honda and Nissan have no problem doing that for sure ( Honda/ Nissan of Japan of course ). probably all the manufactures will do it for you.

    Given the complications I would mail order a vermont title, and then transfer it later or keep the VT plates if they won't. Vermont really does not care
     
  30. bmwr71

    bmwr71 Member

    I didn't get a response today from either the state nor the county clerk's office directors. Perhaps they are busy or took off, or perhaps they are stumped.

    The law on the mini trucks says they are kei trucks and never defines what a kei truck is. I know there are specifications in Japan, but Japanese law does not apply here. If the law said that the definition for kei was that specified in some Japanese law or publication or guidance, then it would matter depending on if they did the citation correctly, but there is no mention of where the kei definition comes from unless it is somewhere else that nobody had informed me of, but I am doubting that. As I said, in law, if a word is not specifically defined, then the common dictionary meaning is used. I don't think there is any dictionary definition of what a kei class truck is except who knows, maybe in some Japanese dictionary. And perhaps non-English or non-USA dictionaries don't count.

    Would be interested in knowing where to find the import law information in the Kentucky statutes so i could see if I could further corner the directors. But perhaps they would claim it didn't amtter due to the specific law on mini trucks being applicable.

    And I need to look into the Vermont license. May check with a policeman friend to see if there is any law that one needs to change the license on a car to a Kentucky license after so many months of living in the state. He has already suggested I just buy one and take it for the sherriff's inspection and just go into a county clerk's office and get a license. That is tempting, but might end up with a truck that I can only off road with. And where I live, the stupid government prohibits unlicensed vehicles in one's driveway or yard.
     

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