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Official EPA Notice November 17, 2008

Discussion in 'EPA Regulations' started by Mini Truck Exporter, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. All,

    See attached pdf which was sent out today by David Hurlin from the EPA.

    Jeff Barnett
    American Kei Truck Association
     

    Attached Files:

  2. hopefulformini

    hopefulformini New Member

    What is the consensus?

    What is the consensus? Are we back in business?
     
  3. MT-Importer

    MT-Importer New Member

    Cold Hard Facts

    I got the letter yesterday from EPA, and these are the cold hard facts as I see them,

    1) I think there are about 4 testing labs for cars that the EPA will accept, you must send one truck of each family, ie 1997-2003 Carry, each family will have the same engine and emissions control (cat converter) system, the testing for each family will be $80,000 to $100,000 for each family
    there is no guarantee that the family will meet 2008 emissions standards, however if they do meet then;

    2) then once the family is accepted then you will have to test each truck in Japan to see if thei exact truck will meet the standard, if it does then a sticker is affixed stating this and then;

    3) who ever imports it is on the hook for many years ( It use to be 12 years but I will have to check this and see if it has been changed) to warrantee the emissions control system. If it breaks than the importer must replace it at his cost. Very costly if the vehicle is 2000 miles from your shop.

    4) I had 3 containers of trucks ready to be shipped from Japan, I decided not to ship them since the EPA would not give me any written assurance that if they made it into Customs by Dec.8th that they would be grand fathered, I will wait and see if I was right since I know of several shipments from Japan that will arrive after the Dec 8th cut off.

    A $32,500 a day fine is a little much for me.
     
  4. hopefulformini

    hopefulformini New Member

    Sounds bleak.
     
  5. MiniTiger

    MiniTiger New Member

    Japanese Automakers (JA)

    It does sound bleak.

    The question that I have is, "What are the various Japanese automakers doing to help correct this situation?"

    The Japanese automakers (JA) have even more to lose with this legislation than we do. It would seem to me the ability for these used vehicles to be exported greatly improves their (JA) position to make and sell more new vehicles in their own country. Not to mention the sales of additional parts, i.e. filters, springs, seats, pads, doors, engines, etc. to the United States.

    While we, (MTO) are small in number and poor, the JA's have the technical knowledge, money and resources, if they choose to do so, to assist greatly in either stopping and/or modifying the EPA requirements. As a minimum, they could take the lead in helping determine what modifications that may be needed, technical expertise and supplies (i.e. parts) as to how the needed modifications are to be installed.

    Once again, what are the Japanese Automakers doing to help?
     
  6. cmaranto

    cmaranto Member

    Automakers response

    Why on earth would anyone think that the Japanese Automakers would give a rats *** what the EPA is legislating here in the US concerning Minis. Now, if they were importing them to their franchised dealers....then that is another story. Lets keep things in perspective here. We are less than a blip on the radar screen back in Japan. Whatever rules are laid down by the US Govt, it will be up to the individuals, dealers, and importers to figure out. Unless, of course, we all apply for a bail-out package with the Feds:D
     
  7. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator


    Don't forget to show up in your corporate jet :D that way they know you really need the money - NOT
     
  8. hopefulformini

    hopefulformini New Member

    This might be showing my ignorance but what are the reqirements for a Mule or Gator? They really are new and do not have a Cat. Convertor. They are also off road use only and will go much faster than 25 MPH. Why the focus on the mini, other than sales tax and fees to the EPA of cource.
     
  9. cmaranto

    cmaranto Member

    Gators etc.

    John Deere put the Gator through the certfication process long before they were introduced. Remember.....the Gator is made for and sold to the American market.
     
  10. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    i'm sure if i post this enough times in as many threads as possible people will finally understand that the EPA is not after the mini as a breed. they are after the entire category it falls under. it is not the "off road only" thing they are after, it's not the truck they are after... IT'S THE ENGINE!! these trucks do not fall in a vehicle category, but rather, an equipment category. and as such must conform to the standards of the equipment category they fall into under the import guidelines.
     
  11. kmoneil

    kmoneil Administrator Staff Member

    :pop: :pop: :pop:
     
  12. Might Milt is correct,

    The EPA is only interested in “Engine Certification”. We know all about this as we are a Registered Importer for DOT. To get EPA certification for the Emission & Engine Series is not that difficult but a bit time consuming. Once a “Certificate of Conformance” is issued that’s it. Now to be clear, that means for each and every engine series. Example: Suzuki F6A Engine is not exactly the same as a K6A. Its not the mechanical issue, it’s the emissions that EPA cares about. The 2004~newer rule has been around a long time. It just has NOT been enforced as strict as now.

    Solution: Get a “Certificate or Conformity” and problems are solved. We have been working on this with EPA and invented the only EPA approved electronic speed limiter. EPA is not going to ban trucks, they just want the paperwork done correctly.

    Br,
    Don
     
  13. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    engine certification

    can you give the importers a certificate of conformity?
     
  14. MiniTiger

    MiniTiger New Member

    How do you go about getting this certificate? Where do i have to start? Thanks
     
  15. hopefulformini

    hopefulformini New Member

    It's the breed

    I understand it's the breed, but, if the EPA cares about emissions and nothing else, then how does the emisions of a min compared to a gator? off road, on road, airbags whatever should't matter. For every gallon of gas used how much CO2 does a mini produce compared to a gator?
    That's all I am saying...if it's not taxes, fees, safety or whatever else...that should be the only number that matters.
     
  16. how the land is sliced and diced...

    I asked the regional EPA about having an EPA acceptable pass or fail test on a mini truck in SD. Wondered if I should spend the money and get the mini truck tested - just to have a solid document to flash around (to promote the trucks). I was routed back to an office in CO. The EPA rep was wondering why in the world would I be asking for an emissions test in SD? Its not needed there, but Denver it is a different story. The EPA rep then became very interested in mini trucks and asked for the EPA documents related to. I figured that was his area to dig into after the call. So, the rules are not the same every where on everything.

    Granted, I don't know the expense for a emissions test, but if it passes --- lets lighten up some?
     
  17. hopefulformini

    hopefulformini New Member

  18. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    That's jtpc's truck featured in the article BTW
     
  19. S.Hiro

    S.Hiro Member

    I want to know what are the CO2 % test is accept in USA. I can send my Trucks to check in japan & in the philippine and will post the Result of emission test, it may help you to Import again if the test level same or maybe less then the US Law of emission,
     
  20. Suzuki Environmental Reports

    When I was looking around at Suzuki Carry mini trucks - I seen there was a Suzuki Environmental Report release. It was for 2006, not sure if Suzuki does this every year or how far back. It appears to me that Suzuki takes environmental progress seriously - from emmisions, noise, etc. The report even broke down the 2006 Suzuki Carry improvements - noise reduction, emissions testing, etc. Just found it very interesting...I saved the pdf document.
     
  21. It has nothing to do with emission figures in the USA. As long as the engine is under 1000 ppm (all k-trucks average 800ppm) The emissions (system) need to be certified. The entire emissions system, and finially all the numbers verified in a test at the ( Federal) EPA facility in Michigan. Do not confuse individual states EPA emissions with Federal. To do the test you must be one of the following: Engine Manufacturer-ICI or Registered (with EPA) parts manufacturer. Individuals can NOT due the test. Its a mountain of paperwork (about 50 pages) and the final CO-HC test at the facility. This must be completed for all engine families if any changes have been made. Your looking at 30~$50,000 (per engine family). We have done it before, its not for the weak hearted.

    Don
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  22. S.Hiro

    S.Hiro Member

    Great Thanks to both for the Info, Hope there some way to find from all the Mini Trucks Importer to keep this business alive,
     
  23. We are a registered manufacture with the EPA and Registered DOT importer plus two years ahead of the game. We know what to do, hang in there and wait. Mini trucks will not go away, just increase.

    Cheers,
    Don
     
  24. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    certificate

    how do the importers get this certificate of conformity?
    pls. respond==second request
     
  25. miniman

    miniman Member

    So, how many importers have filed for the extension and when should you know if you are granted the extension?
     
  26. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    donald andrews

    does anyone know this donald andrews? he has made a number of statements on this forum but i have never gotten an answer back from him.
     
  27. d rock

    d rock Member

    "Are mini-trucks dangerous? No one has statistics. Subject to Canada’s looser import rules, British Columbia produced a 2007 study showing that older right-hand-drive vehicles in Canada are 40 percent more likely to crash compared with similar left-drive vehicles."

    the fact that this quote is included in that car and Driver article drives me nuts! that "study" has been widely discussed and disproved but the fact that it is still lingering around being used as a reference is ridiculous.
     
  28. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    That burns me a whole bunch too. It's funny how if you libel someone you get sued, you make a crappy product
    you get sued but somehow if you pay someone to make a "false" study just to back your point of view nothing happens.

    Note: I posted info on the "scam" ICBC report on the the bottom of the article [C & D] but I guess Car & Driver doesn't like the fact
    that their reporter goofed on not checking out that report a little more, so they deleted my post.

    Our provincial auto insurance monopoly ICBC commisioned that report because the fellow that
    headed it had something personal against JDM's. The study started to fall a part when people started
    to examine some of the so called facts in it. Seperatly at ICBC their top management were involved
    with a in-house "chopshop" that got lots of press. The end result? The prez left for another job
    [quoting him: coincidently] and got the golden handshake and the top managers after
    a year has gone by since the incident also got the golden handshake as ICBC didn't want the
    dirty details or what they possibly knew coming out in the press as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008

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