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Front Coil Springs

Discussion in 'General Truck Info' started by greg0187, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. farmboybrent

    farmboybrent New Member

    I actually just bought the lift. I don't really want to sell it. I'd just like to get some firmness in the ride. Can anyone point me in the direction of some springs that will firm the ride up, but not lift it any? Also is it easy to get the new springs on the stock strut? Thanks
     
  2. Groz

    Groz Member

    I don't know where you are going to get springs that don't lift your truck a bit, remember that the ones you have were designed for light people, they will be about ten inches long. the ones I got from, I think AC coils in Georgia, were the right size to go over the shock towers. I think to get springs that will fit, you will have to get ones that lift the vehicle a bit. say 225# spriings 250's if you are a big guy.
     
  3. o8k

    o8k Member

    Don’t take this the wrong way but, you have posted the same question twice and you have done so from the very thread that would answer your own question.

    Point being, don’t be afraid to read through a 15 page thread, i know its long and boring in places, but it should answer your question. The search function can help get you there as well. Honda Acty has its own sub-section with valuable information too.

    Once you find your springs, to get exactly what you want, you will have to do some cutting.

    A little IMHO background about the mini-truck lift industry today
    Lifting a Mini truck is not a simple aftermarket kit install, in fact no vehicle really is. More commonly lifted vehicles have a larger installer knowledge base that can "do it for you" and "do it right" if you don’t understand what you’re doing.

    For mini trucks, that knowledge base is small, and the installers who know it, even smaller. So this mini-industry just frankly isn’t that far along yet. Same thing happened w/ the Jeep liberty lift, the final “answer” was something dubbed, the “Frankenlift” b/c it gleaned from about a half dozen different lift concepts and parts people had been working on.

    The good news is…You are asking that question from atop "THE" pile of that knowledge. And I trust you will be successful.
    o8k
     
  4. Groz

    Groz Member

    Thanks o8K. Groz.
     
  5. Hi all,
    Picked up a Hijet recently and happy to join the fam :) I have read through this whole thing and am wondering the same thing as farmboybrent which is has anyone managed to stiffen up the front without lifting the vehicle more?

    i also bought a 2in lift and would like stiffer springs but i don't want to lift the front more for fear of the binding problem some are experiencing. thanks for your help all. love you.
     
  6. Question for Groz

    Hi Groz,
    Wondering, now that you have the 10" springs and a 2" lift did you have to drop your differential to keep your cvs happy? Would be great to hear what you all have ended up with ie: springs, lift, lift of differential , etc

    much thanks all :)
     
  7. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    "stiffer" 10 inch springs to replace "worn saggy" 10 inch springs will not lift the truck per se. Yes the truck will be slightly higher, depending upon how much the old springs sagged and how much the new springs sag (compress).

    IMO you are realy not lifting the suspension into a harmful mode by replacing 10 with 10. Think of it this way or even actually try this. Lift your truck with a floor jack allowing the suspension to droop to full suspension travel. Check for binding or any other harm. Take a measurment or two to determing your "factory lift" at full suspension travel. Now, replace the old 10 inch springs with new stiffer 10 inch springs. Do the same jacking and measurments. Compare measurments. You have done nothing to expand the suspension travel beyond factory.

    Putting in strut blocks are a different story. You will have to see if 2 inch blocks cause any binding in the CVs. Most folks report not, some report binding with even the 2 inch lift block.

    I have 6 inch lift blocks myself, but all components that are affected have been lowered 6 inches so the effect to those components is 0 lift. I also have 10 inch 225 lb springs.
    Good luck and have fun.:D
     
  8. thank you so much aeroshots for your explanation :) i agree and will give that a whirl. Is it hard to drop the diff? did you get a kit or make the spacer yourself?
     
  9. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    A previous owner put in an eight inch lift. He had lowered all related components six inches. I replaced the eight inch lift with a custom made six inch lift so as not to change axle shaft angles and therefor keep CV joints healthy. That being said, the droping of components looks fairly basic, but takes some welding and fabrication talent. Actually, I'm still tinkering with fine tuning the lift and related issues, i.e. steering stablizer.
     
  10. o8k

    o8k Member

    One thing that confuses me still is this... I would think moving the top of the strut tower “out” away from the truck (laterally/horizontally) would move the hub assy and axle out (laterally/horizontally) away from the truck as well. This would happen because the Lower Control Arm (LCA) is under the axle and not above it. So I am confused how correcting for camber would “stuff” the inner axle to 12 deg. Correcting for camber means moving the strut out and thus the axle out, not in. <--- spent a few minutes under my truck yesterday and realized that folks are "fixing" camber by shoving the top of the tower inward, i have the right idea here, but got it backwards on which way the caber mis-aligns sorry for confusion -- 04-26-2010
    I believe the “axle stuffage” (for lack of a better term) is from “unsync’ing” the travel of the strut from the travel of the axle, which is what happens with all OTT spacers.

    I have knocked up a system dynamics model of this based on spanner’s description. It illustrates graphically exactly like spanner says. The danger zone on the axle is in compression and possibly in extension (but not as bad). Since I don’t have the measurements of the components, the curves on the model are relative and thus I can’t get the exact numbers, but if I had em… I could tell you exactly how far you can unsync the suspension b4 you go boom.

    See attachement:
    Draw a vertical line from the max and min alowable angle in CV (12 degrees and 24 degrees) Where this interesects with the new dotted line curve is the new upper and lower limit of your suspension articulation. It is shorter!!! AND... There is NOTHING stopping your vehicle from exceeding these limits anymore. Which means if you articulate enough, you WILL break something.... The further you push the smaller the range, the more likely articulation will break you.



    I may also knock up a model for what OTT spacers do to your strut pistons and the lower ball joints too. All three models will very clearly illustrate "relatively" how dangerous OTT spacers are.

    Please excuse me, but i have been "killing" this post with edits... almost done...

    View attachment Scan 1.PDF
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
  11. o8k

    o8k Member

  12. o8k

    o8k Member

    hehehe. sorry about the rotation. I did that at work really quick and got a bit sloppy. Ill fix the post up a little cleaner here in a while....
     
  13. TnTom

    TnTom New Member

    I have a 1993 Daihatsu Hijet S83P Regular cab that bottoms out all the time when offroad (I am about to lose my teeth and lower back). I read through this whole thread and it seems like replacing the front coils seems to be the ticket to minimize this problem. My conclusion from all the posts on replacing the front coils is to use a 10 inch length coil with either a 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 inside diameter (stock being 2 1/2) and either 225 or 250 lbs/in dedending on the stiffness of ride desired or the front end loading. I have ordered the 250's for me because I am pretty good size (240lbs) and do mostly off road driving.

    It seems that most everyone has improved the ride without upgrading the struts also. I noticed that the comments were that the Daihatsu struts are pretty soft and the coils made the big difference. I did read where someone suggested substituting Mitsubishi struts for the Daihatsu because they were stiffer. Has anyone done this and what is the cost for those struts and where do I get them? Or are there any other recommendations for upgrading the front struts? I figured that while I am changing out the springs, I should also upgrade the struts, so I can do it all at once. Any stock brand strut recommended substitutes that might be a better price?

    I am also having problems with the new front tires rubbing against the existing front coils (so I am going to try to stay with the 2 1/2 ID coils when I order the new ones) and was wondering what was the best way to handle that problem. The person I bought it from had put some washers over the lug nuts but that doesn't get them out enough and I was worried to go farther with this method. I have read about wheel spacers, but was worried about not having enough length for the lugs. What are some options to address this problem?

    Thanks, this has been a great read and right to the meat of my main complaints I have with my truck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  14. Acerguy

    Acerguy Moderator Staff Member

    What kind of wheels (and, importantly, with what backspacing) are you using?
     
  15. TnTom

    TnTom New Member

    I will have to check. Truck is at cabin and may be tonight or tomorrow before I can check.
     
  16. zardoz

    zardoz Member

    why are you banging your head against the wall? trying to kill a fly?
     
  17. TnTom

    TnTom New Member

    Thanks for the response. I went and looked at the truck and looked at my old springs, they look to be about 6 inches long. I assume they are compressed from weight of truck and they are probably weakened also. I was just worried that 10 inch coils are going to be really long, but my old one's I guess are compressed that much. The existing ones also looked to be larger inside diameter (like 2 3/4 inches). I am having these put on at my firends tire shop and don't want to have the wrong parts when we do the job.

    I actually found and ordered some new Daihatsu struts (defintely pricey) and should have them shortly. Will I still have problems with topping out of the new struts working with the new springs and should I go ahead and order the shock extensions you recommended so that I will have everything available at the time of repair. They weren't too expensive and I would rather eat the cost of them then have to pay their mechanic to go back in a second time if the truck is topping out. What do you suggest?

    I will go and read up on wheel offsets and camber correction.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  18. Acerguy

    Acerguy Moderator Staff Member

    You may want to confirm the threads are the same as those extensions. Just saying that might be an issue as I would assume that the stock shocks use a metric thread. :confused:
     
  19. TnTom

    TnTom New Member

    I assume they are the same. The new struts are Daihatsu, so I would guess they would be the same as the old ones and threaded the same (but Murphy's Law says they probably aren't). When I get the parts here I will check that they thread on before we start breaking down the truck. I talked to the guy I got the struts from and he thought that even with new struts there might be risk of topping out with the new coils and that I should go ahead and get the extensions to be safe. Thanks for that tip!
     
  20. TnTom

    TnTom New Member

    I searched camber correction in this forum and didn't see much and nothing in relation in the threads about replacing the front coils. I didn't see where they had problems with that when they were just replacing the front coils. What should I look for (or tell the mechanic to look for) to make sure I don't have a problem? Remember you are talking to a novice here.
     
  21. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    I have the same truck as you and the 10" 250# springs are perfect...you will see about 1 1/4 inch of lift,and you are unlikely to bottom out again.
     
  22. Well, I gotta say I have the 225# springs in my 1990 Hijet and am loving the difference. I can drive all over the road like a nut and feel confident that no grounding is going to happen :D

    Much thanks Greg and everyone else for your advice

    Now...can anyone recommend some rugged tires that are street legal in BC :cool:
     
  23. TnTom

    TnTom New Member

    I am going to need to hit the beer by the time I get this finished. It sounds like it is a good thing that the guy who owns the shop is a hunting buddy of mine cause we may be in for a lot of "adapting to the situation". Thanks for all the guidance and pearls. I will let you know how things work out as soon as the parts get here.
     
  24. o8k

    o8k Member

    I want to highlight somthing here that i found on this site but is hidden in a youtube video:

    This is the Thread (POST #10):
    http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=6485&highlight=anti


    This is the Youtube video (to give credit to its creator)(info pulled from about 1:45 into video)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti1MHUS62v0

    This is what im highlighting:
    Outer-Shock.JPG

    And what im getting at with this post is, i want to share that i have an idea to adapt this guy's concept to my own purposes. Hope this inspires others as well....
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
  25. jimhoodag

    jimhoodag New Member

    Strut Reinstallation Problem

    Alright guys you talked me into trying to install a set of 2.5"x10"x250# coil springs on my 1994 HiJet; however, I cannot force the strut back onto the left side. When I try to jack up the axle to attach the strut to the chassis, I can't force it into the hole to bolt it on. I tried to install it with and without the three inch lift.

    I have tried to remove the tie rod, but it will not budge. What should I do to allow the hub to tilt inward to line up with the holes to bolt the strut on? Are there any tricks for getting the strut to line back up?

    The 2.5 inch diameter on the springs is too small for strut spring compressors to work. If I had it to do over again, I would get the 2 5/8 stock diameter.

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  26. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Hey jim. Its pretty tricky to align everything back up and compress the spring. I would suggest taking the assembly to a shop that does struts and have them get that assembly back together for you.
     
  27. jimhoodag

    jimhoodag New Member

    I took it to a shop and had the springs compressed and back together. For some reason the axel appears to be preventing the hub from tilting inward at the top enough for the strut to line up with the hole in the chassis under the seat. With both bolts holding the strut at the bottom to the hub, the top of the strut only lacks less than an inch in being able to bolt back on. When I jack the hub up to meet the hole, the strut tilts outward.

    It is almost like the strut is bent outward. I have had a 3 inch lift on the truck for several years and don't know whether or not it caused something to bend. If I could compress the springs more, it would probably tilt in more. Since the 2.5" diamiter spring does not leave enough room for spring compressors, any ideas on how I could compress the springs? Putting the vehicle weight on them has not worked.

    If I could get the tie rod off, would it let the hub tilt inward at the top?
     
  28. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Oh ok. I know what you mean. You should be able to turn the wheel to gain clearance. I'm guessing you already tried that though. I wouldn't think you would have that problem without the lift. That'd the problem I had with the lift. Hmmmmmm
     
  29. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe you could use a ratchet strap to compress the assembly? Other than that I'm not sure.
     
  30. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    Have someone turn the steering wheel, lock to lock each way, while you attempt to get it into position.
     

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