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Front Coil Springs

Discussion in 'General Truck Info' started by greg0187, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. mitsu911

    mitsu911 Member

    Failed Installation

    Sorry, it was on a 1999 Mitsubishi u62T
     
  2. mitsu911

    mitsu911 Member

    Spring Rate

    So I took the old springs, I applied 200lbs to them and they compressed 2." So is it fair to say that the springs I had were 100 lb springs?
     
  3. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Depends on how precise you were but yes thats correct. You need alittle bit of preload before compression though. If you have an old bathroom scale, a hydraulic press, and a tape measure you will be really close.
     
  4. Groz

    Groz Member

    I don't quite understand your problem, are you worried about topping out, my Daihatsu hardly moves when you jump on it, but rides like a dream, I have 225# springs if I remember correctly, and a 2 inch lift, I could remeove the lift I think, with out having to worry about tires rubbing.
     
  5. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

  6. mitsu911

    mitsu911 Member

    Actually, what I did was I took our bathroom scales outside, set the spring on it, and then stood on the spring applying 200 lbs according to the scale. I then had my wife measure how much it compressed.

    I guess I didn't explain it fully; but the 10" 250 lb springs are completely topping it out, so I was trying to decide on what weight of spring I was going to try next based on the old one's.

    So if I have determined that the old one's are 9" 100 lb and they are about 1-2" from bottoming out (after I installed the winch and bumper), and the new one's I tried were 10" 250 lb and they completely top it out then where should I go next?

    I thought about cutting 1" off of the new one's, but I don't think that would help much. I am thinking about getting 9" 200lb???:confused:
     
  7. olddatsunfan

    olddatsunfan Member

    I think that coilover springs only come in even inch height dimensions. Why not try taking out an inch or so, re installing the cut springs and see how it works. Effectively, it will give a higher spring rate, but, shorter overall height. If it's still too much try cutting another inch off so that you have an 8" 275-300lb spring .... Nothing to lose as you've already got the springs and they aren't working so good for you now ....
     
  8. mitsu911

    mitsu911 Member

    Success

    I sent the 10" 2 5/8" 250 lb springs back, they were topping the suspension out completely. So I ordered 9" 2 1/2" 220 lb springs.

    In hindsight I probably could have just cut the 250 lb springs down, but I was afraid to. And I also saved over $50 using the 2 1/2".

    I installed them without cutting them and they raised the front end 2 1/2", but the struts were not topped out.

    I then took them back off and cut the flat part out plus 1/2" additional on one end.

    This made the springs 8 1/2" (my stock one's were 9")

    This worked well for me on my 1999 Mitsubushi with a heavy bumper and 5000 lb winch on the front.

    Some things that I learned:

    The springs come flat on the top and the bottom, the Japanese springs are not flat. So I had to cut the flat part of each spring out to get the springs to sit properly. (I know this has been mentioned)

    I finally just bought a set of spring compressors on Ebay. I just used my impact wrench to tighten and loosen it. I got tired of paying someone else to do this for me. I used extreme caution with these, I didn't allow the compressed springs to face toward me while the springs were compressed (in case something broke it would not fly off and hit me).

    Whenever I could, I kept the nut and a plate on the top of the strut in case something broke.

    Leave one of the bolts in the bottom until you get the top of the struts loose (so the strut doesn't fall down and tear the boot of the CV joint).

    If you have a lift installed, it is much easier if the bolts on top are welded instead of loose. (Mine were loose, and it was a two man operation to get the strut top bolted back together)

    Make sure you support the axle with something after loosening the strut (or it will fall down only to be supported by the brake line, this might be model specific)
     
  9. farmboybrent

    farmboybrent New Member

    Hey I have a 1996 Honda Mini Acty. Its an Ha4. We have a 2 inch lift on it. It bottoms out bad. Everytime we hit a bump or pothole it sounds like the wheels slam into the bottom of the truck. I don't want to gain any lift out of these springs. I simply want to keep my same ride height with the exception of it being a firmer ride while needing more weight to push the front end down. Thanks, Brent
     
  10. Groz

    Groz Member

    I could have taken out the two inch lift when I put my new springs in, as I gained nearly two inches with the new springs. I don't know Honda, but you may have to put your lift back in if it doesn't lift your machine enough with just new springs. Do get the springs, I thought the wheels were going to break off, the way mine bottomed out.
     
  11. farmboybrent

    farmboybrent New Member

    I actually just bought the lift. I don't really want to sell it. I'd just like to get some firmness in the ride. Can anyone point me in the direction of some springs that will firm the ride up, but not lift it any? Also is it easy to get the new springs on the stock strut? Thanks
     
  12. Groz

    Groz Member

    I don't know where you are going to get springs that don't lift your truck a bit, remember that the ones you have were designed for light people, they will be about ten inches long. the ones I got from, I think AC coils in Georgia, were the right size to go over the shock towers. I think to get springs that will fit, you will have to get ones that lift the vehicle a bit. say 225# spriings 250's if you are a big guy.
     
  13. o8k

    o8k Member

    Don’t take this the wrong way but, you have posted the same question twice and you have done so from the very thread that would answer your own question.

    Point being, don’t be afraid to read through a 15 page thread, i know its long and boring in places, but it should answer your question. The search function can help get you there as well. Honda Acty has its own sub-section with valuable information too.

    Once you find your springs, to get exactly what you want, you will have to do some cutting.

    A little IMHO background about the mini-truck lift industry today
    Lifting a Mini truck is not a simple aftermarket kit install, in fact no vehicle really is. More commonly lifted vehicles have a larger installer knowledge base that can "do it for you" and "do it right" if you don’t understand what you’re doing.

    For mini trucks, that knowledge base is small, and the installers who know it, even smaller. So this mini-industry just frankly isn’t that far along yet. Same thing happened w/ the Jeep liberty lift, the final “answer” was something dubbed, the “Frankenlift” b/c it gleaned from about a half dozen different lift concepts and parts people had been working on.

    The good news is…You are asking that question from atop "THE" pile of that knowledge. And I trust you will be successful.
    o8k
     
  14. Groz

    Groz Member

    Thanks o8K. Groz.
     
  15. Hi all,
    Picked up a Hijet recently and happy to join the fam :) I have read through this whole thing and am wondering the same thing as farmboybrent which is has anyone managed to stiffen up the front without lifting the vehicle more?

    i also bought a 2in lift and would like stiffer springs but i don't want to lift the front more for fear of the binding problem some are experiencing. thanks for your help all. love you.
     
  16. Question for Groz

    Hi Groz,
    Wondering, now that you have the 10" springs and a 2" lift did you have to drop your differential to keep your cvs happy? Would be great to hear what you all have ended up with ie: springs, lift, lift of differential , etc

    much thanks all :)
     
  17. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    "stiffer" 10 inch springs to replace "worn saggy" 10 inch springs will not lift the truck per se. Yes the truck will be slightly higher, depending upon how much the old springs sagged and how much the new springs sag (compress).

    IMO you are realy not lifting the suspension into a harmful mode by replacing 10 with 10. Think of it this way or even actually try this. Lift your truck with a floor jack allowing the suspension to droop to full suspension travel. Check for binding or any other harm. Take a measurment or two to determing your "factory lift" at full suspension travel. Now, replace the old 10 inch springs with new stiffer 10 inch springs. Do the same jacking and measurments. Compare measurments. You have done nothing to expand the suspension travel beyond factory.

    Putting in strut blocks are a different story. You will have to see if 2 inch blocks cause any binding in the CVs. Most folks report not, some report binding with even the 2 inch lift block.

    I have 6 inch lift blocks myself, but all components that are affected have been lowered 6 inches so the effect to those components is 0 lift. I also have 10 inch 225 lb springs.
    Good luck and have fun.:D
     
  18. thank you so much aeroshots for your explanation :) i agree and will give that a whirl. Is it hard to drop the diff? did you get a kit or make the spacer yourself?
     
  19. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    A previous owner put in an eight inch lift. He had lowered all related components six inches. I replaced the eight inch lift with a custom made six inch lift so as not to change axle shaft angles and therefor keep CV joints healthy. That being said, the droping of components looks fairly basic, but takes some welding and fabrication talent. Actually, I'm still tinkering with fine tuning the lift and related issues, i.e. steering stablizer.
     
  20. o8k

    o8k Member

    One thing that confuses me still is this... I would think moving the top of the strut tower “out” away from the truck (laterally/horizontally) would move the hub assy and axle out (laterally/horizontally) away from the truck as well. This would happen because the Lower Control Arm (LCA) is under the axle and not above it. So I am confused how correcting for camber would “stuff” the inner axle to 12 deg. Correcting for camber means moving the strut out and thus the axle out, not in. <--- spent a few minutes under my truck yesterday and realized that folks are "fixing" camber by shoving the top of the tower inward, i have the right idea here, but got it backwards on which way the caber mis-aligns sorry for confusion -- 04-26-2010
    I believe the “axle stuffage” (for lack of a better term) is from “unsync’ing” the travel of the strut from the travel of the axle, which is what happens with all OTT spacers.

    I have knocked up a system dynamics model of this based on spanner’s description. It illustrates graphically exactly like spanner says. The danger zone on the axle is in compression and possibly in extension (but not as bad). Since I don’t have the measurements of the components, the curves on the model are relative and thus I can’t get the exact numbers, but if I had em… I could tell you exactly how far you can unsync the suspension b4 you go boom.

    See attachement:
    Draw a vertical line from the max and min alowable angle in CV (12 degrees and 24 degrees) Where this interesects with the new dotted line curve is the new upper and lower limit of your suspension articulation. It is shorter!!! AND... There is NOTHING stopping your vehicle from exceeding these limits anymore. Which means if you articulate enough, you WILL break something.... The further you push the smaller the range, the more likely articulation will break you.



    I may also knock up a model for what OTT spacers do to your strut pistons and the lower ball joints too. All three models will very clearly illustrate "relatively" how dangerous OTT spacers are.

    Please excuse me, but i have been "killing" this post with edits... almost done...

    View attachment Scan 1.PDF
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010

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