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F6A Engine

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by boatman, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. boatman

    boatman Member

    I'm full of questions tonight...

    So a buddy of mine who races snowmobiles smiled when i told him I had the F6a 660 cc suzuki engine. He started talking about turbos he's seen on sleds running the same engine...and these guys seem to be getting up to 110-150 Hp out of these little engines....:eek:

    ...this sounds totally implausible to me for these little carbureted beasties. I'm sure a turbo would do something, and it sounds like there are a few companies that have taken this one some distance; but is this a reality for these little engines? don't they have to do something serious with fuel management as well to get this kind of output? Don't they just blow up very quickly when pushed this hard? bearings, oil? cooling? It seems unlikely that the 'zuki engine guys had that in mind when they sized all those components. Heck if they can take that kind of abuse, then I'm no longer going to worry about high RPM on this thing again...just hold the pedal down and turn up the stereo.

    ...hmmm 110 hp and some 30" tires? that'd be an interesting beast. Would probably simply twist up something in the drivetrain or roll over on the first corner... but it does get a feller thinkin...
     
  2. 700saber

    700saber Member

    the 660 turbo that is in the arctic cat T660 comes stock with about 110HP...trust me as the total sled head i am...I have thought about this, and have been keeping an eye out for wrecked/rolled T660's

    "Type, Displacement, Cooling, Cylinders 4-stroke, 660, liquid, 3
    Lubrication wet sump
    Bore & Stroke (mm) 68 x 60.4
    Est. Horsepower 110
    Ignition CDI
    Carburetion electric fuel injection
    Exhaust Turbocharger with single muffler
    Alternator (watts) 875 @ 5,500 RPM
    Driver Clutch Arctic (rpm sensing)"
     
  3. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
  4. boatman

    boatman Member

    Yeah - I saw that one a while ago Timetripper - I guess I didn't word my question very well- My bad.

    What I'm wondering about is the fact that these all seem to be advertised for much newer sleds than the early '90's engines, and they also mention fuel injection... these early 90 engines are carbureted - so do they set up a new intake manifold with fuel injection and a whole computer system to time it as well as bolting on a turbo? Seems a bit nuts, but I was just curious if that was actually doable with these beasts. Obviously I'm not skilled or wealthy enough to actually consider making this change - I'm quite happy with the stock power and fuel consumption - but was mostly wondering from a design point of view how large achange in the setup adding this turbo would be to an older engine...

    thanks for the feedback-
    bg
     
  5. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    I would say you right about: manifold, computer,etc
    I noticed at the link to the aftermarket turbo kits that that some of the
    motorbike kits were 6k +
    Now thats nuts IMO
    Also the engine has considerably less to lug around in a sled [aka snowmobile]
    than a kei truck making the engine last longer
    The Suzuki Cappuchino came with turbo but the factory HP was in the 80 +/- range
    and again you can get this up to about 145+ if you have the $$$ to spend
    Can't help but think that the engine isn't going to last as long at these kind of outputs
     
  6. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Moderator

    an engine built for a turbo will last considerably longer than a N/A that has a tubo bolted on. turbo motors have a lower static compression ratio and typically a different cam grind with split duration and different lobe centers(112* rather than 108*) for beter cylinder pressure. and they typically have stronger head studs and other preventative measures designed in them to help longevity.
     
  7. MiniBrutes

    MiniBrutes Gold Supporting Member

    Yup. thats why we are going to try putting a Cap engine in a carry later this winter. (Likely Feb when it gets really slow in these parts) I too agree that bolting a turbo on the NA engine is likely not the best solution.
     
  8. oldsnowman

    oldsnowman Member


    hey milt...here is something to ponder...if you mounted a remote turbo on a stock engine, and the boost was set to compensate for the power loss of the engine pulling the air into the engine and the air drag in the manifold and the air tube from turbo to a +/- 0 psi, that would increase hp with out changing anything on the inside of the engine. i think this would be low like 3 or 4 psi maybe lower. as you know a lot of power is lost in the induction cycle. i have my son who is the service manager at a motorcycle/snowmobile shop doing all the math and has all the fancy tools:D what do you think?
     
  9. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Moderator

    3-4lbs of boost will show an increase in power and will be relatively safe on the motor... but is the juice worth the squeeze? unless i can see a drastic change in the performance of the motor (at least 7-10lbs of boost) it's a lot of extra moving parts with more maintenance and more chance of failure. unless i can at least double the power of the truck it's not worth it to me, it's just making something that is relatively simple a lot more complicated without enough gain. JMHO
     
  10. larryn2o

    larryn2o Member

    5 to 9 psi of boost will live on a NA motor and make a good 50 % increase in power.

    IF ! you run good gas and watch the timing. you get broken parts when the fuel starts to detonate.
    i built my first blower motor for the street in 1983 , a GT Mustang 302 ci with cc'ed heads that were shaved 0.100 for 9.5 CR and 9 PSI boost.Cast pistons & crank. it ran on 93 octane fuel, never a ping.
     
  11. oldsnowman

    oldsnowman Member

    well i got all the formula's for picking the right turbo for these 660's, and worked on them last night. and here is what i found. at 6500rpm highway speed 100kpm you will need 17.6lbs of boost to make 80hp and 9.8lbs to make 60hp. there all type of turbo's for how you want to drive, i did these numbers for power on the highway because these truck don't have any trouble with power in town. this set-up is a free flowing turbo so it will have lag at rpm's below 4000 but will make hp when these trucks need it without restriction. these numbers are with a intercooler so the intake manifold temp is kept down between 110 to 130f. my thinking is like milt...its best to leave well enough alone:)
     
  12. maglight

    maglight Member

    Is there a turbo for the db51s? I am thinking about putting one on my 90 carry
     
  13. MiniBrutes

    MiniBrutes Gold Supporting Member

    Yes..... and no......

    For the trucks, I do not think there was a turbo version available. However there are a few vehicles that use the F6A and are indeed turbo. Some Carry vans were available turbo as well as vehicles like the Alto, Jimny, Cappuccino and others.

    So all the parts are technically available, but clearance may be an issue. Most of these applications have the engine vertical whereas your Carry is at a slant. These turbo models were also fuel injected.

    It would not be a simple bolt on kit or anything, you would likely have to do some custom work to make it fit. Ultimately I would want to have a complete donor vehicle handy so things like the high pressure fuel pump, computer, manifolds, etc are all there for a picking.
     
  14. TRAX and HORNS

    TRAX and HORNS Well-Known Member

    I had a 1997 factory Suz. DD51T Turbo about 4 yrs. ago. The truck ran great but I always thought it should have a little bit more get up than it did. We pulled it into he shop one day and I removed the exhaust pipe to see if turbo was ok. It was froze up. I sold the truck to Jason @ North Texas Mini Trucks. He said he could get a turbo. Last time I was at his shop it was still sitting there. He said a new turbo was pricey and never got around to getting one. The turbo was about the size of a snuff can.
     

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