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Emissions test results?

Discussion in 'EPA Regulations' started by Ironraven, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Does anyone have the results from successful emissions testing of their truck? Anything I could use to compare with some other vehicle that does meet EPA regulations? Just so I'd have something to show the Duluth city council so they would know that minis aren't spewing acid rain and poison out of every orifice when they run? Because I'm running into some trouble on that front... :frustration:

    I can't imagine that the emissions would be worse for a mini truck than they are for any other truck; especially an older model equipped with a carburetor instead of being fuel injected.
  2. o8k

    o8k Member

    Ill see if i can scan my results. I failed my first test, then did some, eh-hem, "tune ups", and it passed with flying colors. But im in AZ, not sure how they do it over ther in MN. (changed Air filter, brought the idle speed up abit, replaced plugs)
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  3. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    That's the funny thing is there aren't any emissions tests in MN...
  4. o8k

    o8k Member

    Whats the city council bit all about then?
  5. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    They're bitching about this from the EPA that more or less states that minis are the reason your child gets asthma, LA has smog and your mother in law is 150 pounds overweight.
  6. o8k

    o8k Member

    Lots of truth and lots of slanted truth in that article.

    But, i fail to see how the City has juristiction in this matter first off. And even if the EPA somehow got involved...how this would prevent you from buying a mini truck unless you happend upon one of the "improperly imported" ones?

    I made sure i had all that stuff when buying mine to avoid such headaches. Strangely though, the DMV retained the original import certificate and traded me for an AZ title.... I would reccomend buying one which has such import certificates accociated with it to cover you.

    Now a rant about the authoring of that article...
    That article violates publishing ethics and is written to be manipulating and accusing in two fundamental ways.
    1. Clumps Mini truck in with ALL mobile sources of pollution, then continues to critizise them based on those statistics which, for the most part, the major contributors to that statisic are motor vehicles, trains, etc. If mini trucks were truely clumped into this statistic, they would be such a statisical minority that such a claim would be by any other standard, foolish. (furthermore, importing them properly, means they arent considered on road vehicles which this statistic applies)
    2. They do not clearly discriminate between improperly imported Mini trucks and proper ones.

    Properly imported Minis are done so IAW EPA 40 CFR Part 1048. Meaning its limited to 25mph and is sold for off road use, and thus cant contribute to the "Mobile Sources of Pollution" mentioned in that article. :D

    The certification process mentioned (Requiring Form 3520-1)was added Dec 8 2008 and a 1 year extension was granted to importers who applied which has now expired. Thus, weather or not the mini truck is roque or genuine is dependent upon which dealer it came from, weather or not they had an approved extension, and when they specifically imported it (For example: Pre or post Dec 8 2008 or Dec 8 2009 for those who had extensions)(now things are getting nice and confused).

    I dont believe it is within the EPA's or ANY CITY Council's juristiction to Retroactivly apply EPA regulations forcing compliance with Form 3520-1. Sounds like a great class action law suit waiting to happen.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  7. o8k

    o8k Member

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  8. olddatsunfan

    olddatsunfan Member

    Up here pre 1992 vehicles need to be run through emissions every year, post 1992 once every two years :frustration:! However, since my van hasn't been registered in BC before I get a by the first year, I'm not due until October for the van's first emission test. I'm wondering how that's going to work out :sly:?
  9. Regional EPA office out of Denver CO told me not to waste my time when I started inquiring about emissions testing my kei truck in SD. I just wanted some more ammo for promoting these trucks.

    Its all about location...it seems. He said it would be a different story if I was down in Denver.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  10. I thought Mighty Milt posted his tests...or someone did. I did a search, but its just been too long and not getting the right terms - anyone recall?

    You might also want to contact Bob over at Gung Ho Trucks - or ask some of the other vendors here who aquired the certifications. I'm sure there are a number of owners who have test results :O)

    Also, do some searching here and you'll find the guys who have paved the way for others and gather some information ammo and educate...look over the States that have.


    Just curious - how do you go back and find out what HB was passed to allow something like these minitrucks? Do you just request the info from the State's DMV?
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  11. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    from my emmision test................at 2500 rpm...HC ppm limit 200,reading 74...CO% limit 1,reading 0. dilution 12.9.........at idle... CO ppm limit 200, reading 39..dilution 11.9
  12. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Thanks! As to how I found the bill, I just typed "MN Mini truck law" in google...

    Yeah, I've been trying to gather as much information as I can on this site, but I always seem to type the wrong thing in to the search field I guess... it's weird on other sites it usually returns helpful threads but not here :confused:

    I saw the AZ thread, but the problem is still that they don't make any mention of emissions in it... other than to say they are "exempt from the emissions requirement" which won't cut the mustard here as MN doesn't have an emissions requirement.
  13. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Is that good? lol, I have no idea having never had to emissions test any of my cars. Do you have some sort of receipt that you could scan and upload?
  14. Maybe I'm behind the game here, but if MN doesn't require an emissions test/proof for anything else coming into their State, (just as I learned about a year ago in SD under its regional EPA grid), why is it an issue? I see MN is under a different EPA region and figured you could visit with them if need be. If it was an issue with kei trucks, they should also be looking at all vehicles for required emissions testing :confused:

    Now I don't have the funds to run out and buy one of the current new trucks under the new regulations - but that MSO would have made things a lot easier and cleaned up some issues around KEI trucks. That takes care of alot of the question marks that the old regs got us into which created this grey market. Thats my experience that I went through with SD and discussing documentation to title and tag etc. I personally would not buy another kei truck or car unless it fell under the current import regulations ... if it were me today wanting to possibly get on the road. Or, I would be looking for a way to certify the older trucks if one wanted to - seems like another way someone in the gov't/private sector could make some more money - but thats not really out there and in stone. Thats was my consumer perspective...

    I'm a broken record as far as ranting on the 'legalities' or 'common sense' of kei trucks. :sly: :rolleyes:

    IMHO, your on the right track - just give them info. The burden of proof etc is on us..best you can do is present the case and/or PAY the $ to the right entities. On a side note, I'm interested to see what KEI comes up with in the hybrids and electrics in upcoming years :)
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  15. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    EXACTLY!!!! However I think he's also pointing to the bit at the end that says

    Importing, or causing the importation, of
    an illegal mini-truck can result in a penalty of
    up to $37,500 per vehicle and its exportation.
    Anyone who removes, or causes the removal
    of, a mini-truck's approved speed governor
    is also subject to this penalty. To knowingly
    make a false or fraudulent statement, or omit
    material information required upon importation
    of a mini-truck, can subject a person to criminal
    prosecution. Convictions can result in fines of
    up to $250,000 or imprisonment for up to two
    years, or both.

    Which would seem to suggest that any truck that doesn't have the EPA sticker on the door that doesn't have an EPA approved 25mph speed limiter could cost the operator a quarter million bucks and land them in jail for 2 years :eek:

    Yeah... the only thing I can think of is to prove to him that they aren't super duper polluting machines and hope that the EPA doesn't come knocking on my door with a $250k ticket... which would be retarded because there are 14 states that allow minis to be operated at 35+ mph.
  16. As far as the fines, my take is it is at the time of importation/customs and who's name is attached to the purchase/import papers.

    If the Feds want to go after the buyers for removing those 'stupid' limiters - its going to be a legal field day! Now, the lawyers will be making $ :D Better money if these trucks are worked into the system to please everyone - and that option is viable with the right angle and dollar sign.

    IMO, there are too many other sour grape issues for the Feds/EPA to worry about doing a round up. Then, get the MSO certified trucks, or (as I may do if the sky starts falling), get an emissions test on the truck. Or, I'll just sell the truck of I don't feel like fighting the principal of the matter. :(

    The breaks in logic and common sense will make your head shake - thats one item I never expected when I got into kei trucks. :)

    Next item you might want to consider is finding insurance...:eek: I had some moments there as well - and they consider it a vehicle :sly:
  17. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Yeah, I figure there's really no way for a local government to enforce federal EPA regs right? I mean I don't imagine that they'd take the trouble to rat me out to the Feds if I had a truck that wasn't equipped with a limiter right? Who knows lol. The language is ambiguous enough but I think you're right; as long as I don't "knowingly remove the speed limiter" I'm pretty much home free... I mean if the truck doesn't have a speed limiter installed when I buy it then I'm off the hook right?

    I'm friends with my insurance agent so I'm sure he'll figure something out for me without too much hassle.
  18. project_x

    project_x Member

    My emissions test

    Here is a copy of mine, I have scratched out some of the VIN...

    Attached Files:

  19. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Awesome, thanks man you rock! :cool:
  20. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Oh, and incidentally here's the emissions requirements for vehicles in the USA


    Model year...Typical Cut Points...Well-tuned engine

    ..............CO%.....HC ppm..........CO%.....HC ppm

    pre-1968..... 7.5-12.5... 750-2000..... 2.0-3.0... 250-500

    1969-70..... 7.0-11.0... 650-1250..... 1.5-2.5... 200-300

    1971-74..... 5.0-9.0... 425-1200..... 1.0-1.5... 100-200

    1975-79..... 3.0-6.5... 300-650..... 0.5-1.0... 50-100

    1980........ 1.5-3.5... 275-600..... 0.3-1.0... 50-100

    1981-93..... 1.0-2.5... 200-300..... 0.0-0.5... 10-50

    1994 & up..... 1.0-1.5... 50-100..... 0.0-0.2... 02-20

    So your mini would have passed with flying colors; it even passes the "well tuned engine" requirement!
  21. larryb

    larryb New Member

    emissions test results ?

    i like in sauk rapids mn. and i got insur.i'm trying too get plates too.
  22. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Well right now you won't be able to legally get plates and a title for your truck. You can, however, get a city or county ordinance passed allowing you to permit your mini truck for operation on their streets/roadways. You can follow my progress in my attempt to do just that here:


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