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dirty trick

Discussion in 'Mini Lounge' started by fupabox, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    police near me were using this for a while until people became pissed off...nope it's ok just a taxi....what? damn...
     

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  2. olddatsunfan

    olddatsunfan Member

    That's nasty of them!
     
  3. starpuss

    starpuss Member

    dam. where i live they use mini vans to try to nail you. . . lol
     
  4. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    I think they'd be sued for entrapment in the USA if they tried something like that.
     
  5. Stuff99

    Stuff99 Active Member Staff Member

    the nice officers i saw on my trip all used crown vics except in jamestown, nd. they had chargers, and carrington, nd had suburbans.
     
  6. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    They use Chargers, Durangos, Crown Vics, and I think I've even seen a couple Calibers here in Duluth.
     
  7. Colin

    Colin Member

    This isn't even close to entrapment.
     
  8. Stuff99

    Stuff99 Active Member Staff Member

    what does it say on the top of that cop car anyhow? station's #?
     
  9. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    it actually is the police division phone #...and no..it is not entrapment...just sneaky
     
  10. thefuzz783

    thefuzz783 Member

    Here's the definition of Entrapment in case any one was confused. I actually get told this all the time because I have very good hiding spots when I run radar....

    Entrapment occurs whenever a police officer or other government agent deceives an innocent person into committing a crime he or she had no prior intention of committing. If a court determines that the charges against the defendant are based on entrapment, he or she cannot be convicted of the crime. The laws against police or governmental entrapment are intended to prevent law enforcement agencies from coercing a citizen into committing a crime, then arresting him or her for the act.

    So if you are already speeding, it is not entrapment regardless of what I am doing at the time you were caught. However, if I told you to go as fast as you can down a stretch of road, then stopped you and gave you a ticket for it, that would be entrapment.
     
  11. Colin

    Colin Member

    Yup. I get sick of idiots calling "entrapment" on everything. :frustration:
     
  12. Hullroad

    Hullroad New Member

    I understand the above is not entrapment..... but....I don't call hiding on the side of the road eating your dough nuts, reading books or sleeping with your radar alarm set to wake you up when a speeder goes by is doing your job as an officer.... One marked patrol car setting in plain sight will slow ALL traffic that passes to the speed limit, and below at times:frustration:. .....If the patrol car is hidden you have most of the traffic keeps whizzing by at 5, 10 or more over the limit. Everyone just trying to "TEST THE BOUNDS OF REALITY" until someone finally sets off the radar alarm and wakes up the officer......What way do you think really makes the road safer? I think the best way to Protect and SERVE is to be visible and effective at all times not just when your alarm goes off. Yes the unmarked cars serve a purpose for investigation or surveillance but for traffic control marked works much better.....Sadly the "performance reviews" (most insist they don't have "quotas") used by most police forces don't take the number of cars that slow down into account....They only look at dollars brought in through fines.... so the officers now hide .......Sorry.....I will get off my soap box now.
     
  13. Hullroad

    Hullroad New Member

    I don't wish to take to long with this on this sight as it is not really MINI related but it seams convenient that you can claim I don't know what I am speaking of with out explaining why. :sly:...I have interviewed, hired, and fired many local officer in my elected position (that is as far as I wish to explain my knowledge on this sight).....If you do your job well then I commend you but don't try to tell me that these things do not happen.....As in everything there are bad apples and I would love to find more like you but instead it seems to be getting harder to find good ones. Also I have never had a problem with law enforcement and I have no points on my licence....EVER....
     
  14. Hullroad

    Hullroad New Member

    What is a radar alarm? ......Ours have an adjustment that allows the officer to adjust the speed that an "alarm" will sound. As a quick example of ours... if the speed limit on a road is 45 they can set the alarm at 50 or 55 and that gives the officer time to look up (ok from his paper work if he is a good officer) determine what car is the one speeding if multiple cars are approaching and lock in the "high speed" reading. Their are many radar units out their and ours admittedly have been in more than one patrol car. In our community when replacing cars we will reuse all the equipment we can from the old car and at times we have even purchased reconditioned equipment to save our local tax payers money. Maybe ours are antiquated....maybe yours is the latest and greatest...I don't know but if their is one model with an alarm setting I am sure their are more.

    I respect your points on unmarked cars but I will not change my belief that "visibility" is a better deterrent than hiding...When I first took office here we had marked cars. Our police pushed for (using some of the same arguments as yours) and were approved for unmarked replacements....Our number of citations (for traffic violations) did go up but so did the number of local crimes. The next time cars were up for replacement I pushed for and got marked cars...crimes went back down in our area and traffic citations only lowered slightly (20 less over a 1 year period if I remember correct)....You can always interject other possible causes but that was enough for me to be sold on "visibility" in our area.

    As far as the rest goes as I said before If you do your job well then great......it does not mean that all officers do.....I assure you that their have been those that were "let go" because of things I mentioned and other things I have not.....You sound like a level headed individual from your posts so I think you know a JOB does not make anyone a better person ....only the individual can improve them self not the job they hold....... But I find it interesting that the first thing you assumed of me was that I "had a problem with law enforcement". Why is it that your thought is that if some one knows law enforcement has problems, you assume it is because they have had problems with the law. I don't know if it is just a instinctive "deny everything and make counter accusations" defense or something deeper but I have had the same assumption made of me before while discussing the subject of bad officers. I wish to explain again I have had no problems with law enforcement and I have never even been pulled over locally or while traveling (and I travel a lot).....in fact when I drive I am very careful to drive at or even 5 under the max limit, always come to complete stop, use my blinkers ECT ECT ECT..so that our local police will not need to think about weather to ticket me and possibly lose their job......It is NOT something I would EVER do.....If I did something wrong I want them to stop me.... but out of respect for them I don't want it to even remotely enter their minds so I always drive extra careful and do not give them reason to stop me.......And out of respect for you if the donut remark offended you I am sorry...It's kind of a running joke in our force....no one takes it seriously...but I guess I should stop.....Maybe a good new years resolution.

    I have been part of the interviews for many officer candidates some will come in with a chip on their shoulder and we have had others develop a chip before our eyes. I had one officer complain to me about someone "not showing him respect". Since I knew this individual he was complaining about to normally be a kind and courteous person my first question to him was "What type of respect did you show them?"...The question completely floored him....His reply was "I'm a police officer" .....He was appalled with my suggestion that even a police officer should know to get respect you must show respect......he did not last much longer with us but sadly he is probably still an officer out their some place....I don't know if it is something new or just the old problem of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" but it is out their and seems to be getting worse. The profession as a hole needs to start admitting that problems do exist and stop attacking those that voice concerns. Then they can start taking steps to help themselves just as you have admitted to the donut stereotype and have taken steps to kill it. If you are not so quick to dismiss the concerns then the problems will be easy to see and easy to eliminate.
     
  15. o8k

    o8k Member

    If I may interject my own version of Jerry Springer's Final thought... :D

    Traffic Enforcement as i personally see it AND a few thoughts based on what I’m reading:From an ISO9000 perspective
    Traffic Enforcement is both and Active and Passive Control loop on driving process, serving both as a public safety measure and a source of income for local and state governments.
    The Active control loop: Police Drive around and observe moving violations and issue a summons to court, where a trial is conducted, and the active audit is concluded with either a non-compliance and fine issued or the case is thrown out.
    The Passive control loop: The driving public is aware that if they commit a moving violation, they "may" be caught, sometimes choosing not to, others taking the risk. So even when an officer isn’t present to conduct a vehicle code audit, their mere existence acts as a process control loop, because an audit may come at any time.

    Conclusion:
    I believe active police enforcement of the vehicle codes (or random vehicle code audits) are an effective method of controlling public safety on our roads. It is effective both when the officer is present and when they are not.

    I also believe it is a sad fact that because these moving violations serve financial purposes as well as public safety ones, that all too often Police forces fall victim to the human behavior called greed. This is frustrating when revenue overshadows the public safety element and is just awful. So officers out there, please keep those bibles (or whatever else works for you) handy and pray, so as you understand human nature and can avoid this behavior.

    Stereotyping all officers into this category is falling victim to another human behavior called bigotry. Another sad side to us human's nature.

    Lastly, here in the US, i have no idea what law that breaks (we have discussed that it most likely isn’t entrapment) but I can proudly say we have one or two on the books which prevents this type of Traffic Enforcement audit from happening legally.

    Exploration in the principle of these "taxi" cop cars:
    If one were to take this concept to it's extreme to explore the principle of it. For example, let’s assume every car came w/ a vehicle recorder that had to be turned into the DMV at registration time, basing the registration pricing for that driver's car on the driving behavior and statistical level at which this driver is a public safety hazard. I believe this is an extreme violation of privacy and personal freedom. Hate to use the cliché' "Big Brother" from the book 1984, but... well it fits. Sneaking around in un-marked cars to pounce on the unsuspecting motorist heads in this direction (IMHO) but is a gray area indeed.

    I think we lose a little bit our freedom every day by letting this kind of thing stand, it never happens all at once in some cataclysmic change over. No, more like a marriage gone bad, each day little by little without even realizing it we lose something, forget to say I love you, or I’m sorry, or have I honored/dishonored my family with my behavior, until we wake up and the cage we live in, built by our own hands...
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  16. erixun

    erixun Member

    where it began

    "Cops and dough nuts! Does anyone know where that combination began?"

    When I first became an officer it was explained to me that when Winchells and Dunkin Donuts were everywhere, before the time of 24/7 convienent stores on every corner, this is where third shift, or the "graveyard" shift would go to take their breaks and get coffee.... so naturally all cops love and eat donuts because that is where they were seen congregating and it had donuts in the sign and that is funnier than coffee jokes...

    And just my .02 on the other things flying around here....
    the department and/or city does NOT get the majority of the revenue from tickets, the state and county take the majority of monies from fines.

    Driving is not a "right" but a privilege.

    And as far as having chips on our shoulders? I can see that, most people dislike authority over them in one shape or another and I think we take alot more verbal attacks than most. I know when I worked in other jobs I never had to take this much crap!:D

    And then we generally have a split second to make a decision that others take 6 months to analyze and come up with 100 other things the officer shouldve' couldve' or wouldve' done differently, then make it a point to make sure the officer and everyone else knows it. (when was the last time you accidently screwed up and it made the news? Granted we are held to a higher standard, as well as we should be, but do not forget the fact that we are human just like you, and have bad and good days, nobody is perfect nor should they be expected to be.)

    Nobody likes to be in trouble and most do not like to take any personal responsibilty for their actions. This job is like nothing else and very few understand it, and some who proclaim to understand it, but never worked it, do not and can not understand it completely, yet will tell you how to do it, and that they could do it better. Everybody loves to hate the cops, till you need one, then they didn't come quick enough, do enough, or do what you wanted done. Thats just the way it is.

    Wow, I did not realize I needed to vent this bad... I am off my soap box now, thanks to the forum for a great website for information on the mini truck vibe, and now I guess add therapy?:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2009
  17. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Having worked as a dispatcher for police, fire, medics, and others where I live, I amen to the above. Officer eating donuts? Wish that I could have had some on those long nights when I had an officer(s) on a domestic dispute and they couldn't answer the radio fast enough to suit me, so that I could know that they were alright. Wish I had a cup of coffee and a donut when I got a call from the local hospital telling me they needed an officer to go get someone I knew personally and tell them their son or daughter was dead from a traffic accident. Wish I could of had a cup of coffee and a donut when an officer I dispatched to a shooting went to his own kin folks house and saw his family member dead, but still had to do his job until other officers arrived so he could quietly step away and grieve for a few minutes. I wish I could of had a cup of coffee the day a female firefighter was killed in a car wreck I was dispatching too when she slid off the road and hit a tree in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. She was a good friend of my wife. The hardest dispatch 4 days later was giving the "last call" for her myself, while the funeral was going on.
    So if you see a cop in a taxi, or high way workers in disguise taking your "picture", think of those men and women who put their life on the line evey day for you. They all know that they may never get back home that evening. At this time of year (CHRISTMAS) please remember all the men and women, civillians and military that put their life on the line so that we can enjoy the freedom to get on here, talk about our life with the little trucks, and also have the freedom to rant and rave some about dirty tricks trying to keep up all alive. And thanks to the site supporters and moderators for a great site.
    MERRY CHRISTMAS
     
  18. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    Danny

    THANK YOU MY FRIEND. YOU ARE A TRUE UNDERSTANDING AND CARING PERSON.
    I am not implying others are not, but you speak very kindly and I send to you a hugh YOU ARE VERY WELCOME! And, thank you for what you do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  19. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Your more than welcome. Here in our county, I am now no longer a dispatcher. I am one of those that will not conform to local politicians and their families getting away with all kinds of things, and with the local politicians lying about money in the budgets, I go to all the meetings and raise holy cain about the lack of money being put into the budget for the officers, firemen, rescue squads, ambulance crews etc. I fought the local politicians and lost (my job that is). However, I am still friends with the officers and others, and a lot of them have lost their jobs because of wanting better for our county and better coverages for themselves while protecting the people. I still listen to the scanner, and cringe when new dispatchers give out patrol sheets over the air telling everyone that someone is on vacation, to drive by and check things(yes our crime rate goes up every time this happens). Oh well, for the officers and others that try to do their job RIGHT, please be careful, and know that you are appreciated. Yes, here in the south we do say thanks when we are pullled over,but that is people who really appreciate the job being done right. There are still good people out there, and good dispatchers, and in some locations are appreciated. My hat is off to them. Again , thanks Danny
     
  20. o8k

    o8k Member

    I have the upmost respect for Police, Fire, Millitary personnel. It is positive to hear these storys so that we may put some humanity and reality behind the positions they so honorably serve.

    However, (and I am not saying anyone in here is making this connection). But if they are.... Let me state plainly, I cant seem to understand how this justifies compromising freedom in the name of public safety.

    A wise man once said (several times, several different ways)...

    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
    "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
    "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
    "If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."

    --Benjamin Franklin.

    The sad fact is people get hurt, people die, accidents happen. These men and women dedicated their lives to keep the streets clean, orderly, and as safe as possible. So that us common folks dont have to see all that mess, it aint pretty... Honor them by being mindful of public safety. Keep yourself safe, look out for each other etc. Dont drink and drive, dont drive sleepy... and so on... But please realize that some of the best intentions to keep the public safe, only drive them into slavary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  21. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Very well said. There is a reason that the powers of Law Enforcement Officials are restricted... as the LEO's above have mentioned COPS ARE HUMAN TOO! It's in our nature to abuse our power.

    For example: I can't think of the last time I saw a police car obeying the speed limit; lights on or not. Now I'm not saying this is a big problem that needs to be addressed but it certainly doesn't make me more inclined to follow speed limits.

    Something else that people by and large ignore is that there are so many laws on the books right now (in the USA anyway) that we are ALL CRIMINALS bar none. Everything from oral sex to jaywalking or spitting on the sidewalk or smoking within 20' of a public doorway... and everything in between.

    I have had very few negative interactions with police officers... but then again I've had very few interactions with them period. I tend to by and large follow the spirit of most laws and do my best to keep myself and those around me safe... and ignore those which I deem to be an invasion of my own personal right to "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" which I am guaranteed under the Constitution.
     
  22. o8k

    o8k Member

    Great thread! I can feel the passion behind everyone's posting. Educational and informative! Aeroshots, I don't think anyone is being rude here, if there was, well that was squelched a few posts back =P. I'm learning about what its like for you guys. Next time I see a officer speeding, I will have more to think about. I hope next time an officer sees me speeding... Well I hope he doesn't... :D joke... Honestly I have been wanting to join the volunteer force here because I believe in this stuff, but I live in az maracopa county... And I struggle with accepting the current county sheriff's behavior.
     
  23. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    OK. I think you have a misunderstanding about how much time speeding saves you. Let's use an example:

    Responding to a call 55 miles away, speed limit 55 mph. Let's do the math:
    55 mph = 1 hour repsonse time
    65 mph = 51 minute response time
    75 mph = 44 minute response time

    Or in your situation. 35 minutes (let's assume it's a 55 mph speed limit again) that'd be about 32 miles away.
    55 mph = 35 minute response time
    65 mph = 30 minute response time
    75 mph = 26 minute response time

    That means in order to respond in time to actually be effective at stopping that accident you would have had to travel 20 mph over the speed limit. IMO if an officer is responding to an emergency call of ANY kind they should have their lights on and be going as quickly as is safe for them and traffic around them. Is it safe in your experienced opinion for a vehicle to be traveling through traffic at a speed of 10 or 20 mph over the posted speed limit without being an emergency vehicle? Because I don't think it is. Isn't that why speed limits exist? Isn't that why you have emergency lights and a siren? I'm not saying you need to go 100mph to justify having your lights on... I never mentioned that anywhere. I'm saying that if you have a reason to speed then you should have your siren on so that cars who aren't going as fast as you move out of your way. That's why you have them, and YES I want you to respond to emergencies as quickly and safely as possible. Why don't you put your lights on so you can? Why wouldn't you have your siren and lights on when responding to a "minor" emergency when your experience tells you that 5 minutes can make the difference between a stalled car and a major accident?
     
  24. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Let's be realistic here. Freedom of the kind you refer to doesn't exist. In this country you are guaranteed Freedom as long as it doesn't infringe upon the life or liberty of others. Driving 160 mph isn't safe for anyone in this country as we don't have roads designed for it. Nobody is advocating for the silly kind of hypothetical you are proposing.
     
  25. o8k

    o8k Member

    I think he may be advocating for it. And I think your over the line calling it silly,

     
  26. o8k

    o8k Member

    As I see it the biggest trick is... As we all get squished closer together in urban megaplexes, our freedoms do tend to infringe more. LA, New York, Sanfrancisco... The least free places in the country, why? Cuz everyone is so close together. And I truly believe my prior stated philosophy on how to approach these dilemmas is largely ignored.

     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  27. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    Wow I opened a can of worms with that photo:(....was not an attempt in any way to make law enforcement look bad (I'm a Corrections Officer,so we're on the same side:)) it was prob. bad wording on the post...should have read "sneaky"....which in all honesty it is..not wrong..not dirty...just a tactic used on those who only obey the law when they are in clear sight of a Police Officer......to all the Police Officers out there be happy you don't have the reputation that Corrections Officers have, at least you get to be the good guys on TV and movies...other than "the Green Mile" my profession has been painted as knuckle dragging slack jawed apes, when (aside from the bad apples in any profession) we are the opposite. Police Officers have a tough job to do that is thankless a lot of the time...scrape up a VSA at a speeding accident and then 20 mins. later face abuse from some turd who doesn't like the fact that he's getting a speeding ticket. The general public should all have to do a ride along at some point to see how changing lanes without a signal or texting can change someones life forever. We all need the occasional whack on the back of the head (metaphorically)when we do something stupid,and tickets are just that reminder. When I was a kid in California I was caught with an empty beer bottle in my truck,my punishment was a 1 hour video of autopsies of dead drunk drivers....that whack in the head worked for me.....I propose a large coffee to all law enforcement officers out there,stay alert and stay safe.
     
  28. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    He's advocating for what? For someone to be completely able to drive 160 mph through a school zone as long as they are willing to pay the fine? If that someone kills my son as he is walking home from school I'll be sure to advocate for the "silly" death penalty. Nobody in their right mind believes that "freedom" can be "purchased" in the way he is suggesting. We make our own way by choosing the freedom we deem necessary and I can't think of a rational defense for people being able to do whatever they want as long as they are willing to deal with the monetary consequences. Reminds me more of feudal times where the rich could do what they wanted because they could buy off anyone they needed to as opposed to modern day times where everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. But then again I've had several beers (no I'm not driving anywhere tonight) so my posts should be taken with a few grains (or maybe pounds) of salt.
     
  29. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    Well I wasn't responding to your post... I was responding to someone who said as long as someone was willing to accept the consequences of their actions they were free to do as they pleased. And I take issue with that.
     
  30. Ironraven

    Ironraven Active Member

    I put forth that LEO's are human just like the rest of us. They are prone to making mistakes just like I am. They are just as likely to speed, drive drunk, or whatever as I am.

    I have a largely thankless job too; don't we all? Mine is managing a network and resetting passwords so it's not all life and death (not that you'd know it when one of our buyers can't get to her reports) but I certainly don't get a "thank you!" when everything is running smoothly. On the other hand I made sure to thank the officer who helped me out on Christmas Eve when I hit a patch of black ice and wrecked my car. I even tried to give him a tip for driving me home (turns out that's a major fau paux so I told him I'd buy a toy for toys for tots instead) I try to give credit where credit is due no matter what the person in question's occupation is.
     

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