First a (re)introduction: "I'm Ron and I'm a newb". I can wrench, but am not a mechanic, per se; in other words, if I take it apart, I can put it back together but this puzzle is basically from scratch for me. I've read the "Desperately need tuning help!" thread- what a great read. So I understand how the 2-3 vacuum ports are supposed to be routed- the issue is, I'm not certain what the other end looks like. For instance, here is my current situation: So, I decided to trace the line backward from the distributor (I know what that is...) and because I know there's a line connected to it. It traced back to the exhaust manifold- I don't know why. So that begat another question- what is supposed to connect here on the manifold? I've read the distributor vacuum line should be installed one way- is this a special (one way) line? You can see how this is going to go- I know the starting point on the carb, what I need to know it the trace- to include any valves in the line. ie: wth is a VTV/ check valve/ PCV etc? another example- I know which port/ line goes to the canister, I just don't know what the canister looks like and where it's located. Finally, I spy things that look like there should be vacuum lines attached but there aren't any: So... I read some more threads- Can is Air Canister; is that correct? VSV is vacuum switch valve? Are there different sized VSVs, do I need to replace any which are inline, how do you test?. Blah blah blah. Thanks in advance, Ron
The 2 port brown colored devise is a thermo/vac unit.1 line from carb base goes to it and the other side goes to egr.This supplies vacuum to the egr only when up to temp.The distributor vac advance has a check valve in it,usually black and white,and I don't remember which way it goes and really don't see a need for it but I'm not too bright.I think it was discussed in the "desperate" thread.As you noted there is a ton of info in that thread and I re-read it every now and then and learn something new every time.Im not positive but as I remember the dist.line is the only check valve and the others are restrictors but this too could be wrong. I think there are several different possible set ups depending on your truck and accessories but still not convinced how many are critical.I'm sure some are just smog control window dressing.
I don't know what to say, that's a mess. Jim's got you started, I think maybe that's how to go about it. One line at a time, maybe a few guys can chime in on the theory part as you go along. Like the dizzy check valve, and I know it is. Jim, The check valve is at the dizzy so that the "advance" can't just "snap" closed. Vacuum is always available at the carb port designed for it. That's why you don't take it from the manifold. Not always vacuum there. So, 1) dizzy to check valve to carb port designated for dizzy (valve flow-able to pull air from dizzy to carb) 2) the EGR, Jim has you there. Jim, like you said, I'm not so sure anymore on the true benefits of mixing the two halfs of the engine; dirty and clean. a) EGR b) PCV c) Valve cover to carb inlet. I think that the system is beneficial for a cool, long highway commute. Best for fuel consumption. I also think that the opposite is true. Hot, short, off-road power runs, all these thing are detrimental. But, for now, I would hook things back to factory before you start modding. The canister is behind the drivers' wheel well. Can of soup size. Get yourself some valves, checks and restrictors, and 10' of hose. Also, guys will need pics of the back side of carb, back side of air box, lower dash switches, front of engine, back side of valve cover, right hand frame rail. That's a start. I'm not the best to help here, cu'z my truck's been modded out. Things don't go where they once did, nor do thay do the same things. Jim's probly your best bet for the little detailed questions over the long term. From what I can see, you should track the previous owner down and take away his wrenching card; that's a shame.
Here is a pic of an engine I pulled a while back with all the vac lines intact.This truck was a '92 with air and dif lock.If you look just below the #1 plug wire where it comes from the cap you will see the black end cap and white body of the check valve for the vac advance.The one line that is broken off at the carb nipple is to the air filter housing I believe.I would really advise you to go with 3mm silicone tubing and if you look in the Tips & Tricks section I posted a source with reasonable price for it.
Hoowaa, he owe you a case of beer for that one. Hi-rez too, nice work Jim, good thinking at the time.. Pretty sure the broken line runs to can, on the 2+3, next to, that manifold line runs to air filter can "T"ed to hot air flow box controller....maybe....sketchy...probly should read that thread again... You can even see the choke restrictor, green side to carb....very useful pic there Jim. and a hype..
Thanks spaner,the best friend we addicts have is the digital camera but for us old farts it's hard to remember to use it.This is the donor engine for your alt and ac comp.I think this truck is a twin to yours,same vintage,tranny,and accessories..Pre Mod.
Neat- thanks to both of you. I got side tracked today- I noticed the hoses for the remote brake fluid reservoir were sweating fluid, so I looked and sure enough, they were cracked and leaking DOT3 fluid. Come to find out, Bulldog or someone before them used fuel line for the hoses and not an EPDM hose. So, I went to NAPA and bought 5' of coolant hose, brought it home and hooked it up. While I was there, I picked up 10' of vacuum line, some caps, and a vacuum check valve. I'll start with the dist. tomorrow. Come to find out- I have no fluid in the shed; out to Walmart in the AM... The problem with my mini is that it is already modded fairly well too. It's a left hand drive and so I'm always searching for things where they should be, only to find- they're not there... For example- I don't see and EGR; is that even possible? is it integral to the manifold? I don't think so. Whenever someone states "driver's side" I have to ask myself.... which driver's side??? I'm thinking I may work the distributor in the AM, adjust the fuel air screw so it idles (doesn't now) and set the throttle adjustment screw once it's warmed up and call it good. The primary use of the mini is for gravel and off road at my hunting camp. No street use. We'll see what happens.... this weekend, I'm primarily fishing so I can't get distracted with project mini too much. FWIW- my truck is a '96 DD51T, LHD, EL 5 speed, no A/C, w/ 4" Bulldog Offroad lift. Thanks to both of you- I appreciate everything.
So, I worked on the beast and got it to idle. I tinkered with the air fuel mixture and throttle adjustment screws but I'll have to do it again once I install and button up the air cleaner. This is what I discovered- I have no EGR (solid plate bolted into that position) or Can (or I don't see it)- that's why those ports are plugged. The choke line has no delay valve; is it needed? If so, is it a common part I can find at a part store? I think I'll leave the F port plugged as well, as I see no need for it- am I wrong? If so, what do I run it to? Once I get it all buttoned up, I'll work the choke and fast idle adjustments. Thanks again to the both of you. Best Regards- Ron
I just don't know what to tell you.I've always been afraid of the Feng Shuie and Confuicious gods that inhabit these little trucks so I try to keep them happy by leaving their little hidey holes intact.A lot of these little systems within the system seem pointless but when they are all together they sure run sweet so that's what I try for. Spaner has had real good luck with his mods but he's kind of a mad scientist who sees things we mere mortals only dream about.
I wish it were all there too, but it's not. Now I have a short ton of vacuum line left over. Guess I'll replace some of the diff lock lines and such. The only issue I'm having now is some surging. I guess I'll research that and work it next. I suspect it's due to all of the plugged ports and air/fuel mixture.
Hey Ron,I have the head off this engine on the bench still and I just checked to refresh my memory.There is a port through the head about 1/2" diameter that connects the exhaust and intake manifolds with the egr in the intake man. as the only thing keeping you from having a constant flow if exhaust gasses dumping into the intake right behind the carb. It looks to me like this could cause some tuning problems but maybe not.When I took this head apart this port was nearly plugged with carbon build up that I wouldn't want dumping in to the intake stream so you might look at blocking this off if you are going to run without the egr. Just a thought.
Jim, I'm not exactly certain of the picture you're trying to paint- I'll look tomorrow once I get off the water. If you could post a picture, that would help a great deal... Thanks for the heads up.
Boy, do you guys need a taco... Since you've been looking at the head Jim, funny cu'z I was look'en at that again today, you see how the EGR is integral to the routing and most importantly, I think, how the porting is "run-into" the intake manifold. Interesting... What I mean is...can you number these plugs for me 1, 2, and 3 ? I have plugged the EGR vac line...:sly:
I think Ron is ok with his blocked with the plate as long as there is a good gasket there to prevent vacuum leaks.I know what you're saying about the plugs,when I was working on this head I soaked it in a pan of solvent and when I started cleaning it up I found this port through the head and it was plugged with this crap that looked exactly like Henry's roofing cement.That egr might make the tree huggers feel all warm and fuzzy but they hate internal combustion engines anyway. The point is Ron ignore my last comment,I think your ok with your plate as long as there's no vac leak.
Got off the Gulf a bit late this afternoon- the good news is I have fish to grill, the bad is that I didn't work on the mini at all today. I capped off the carb ports with vacuum caps, replacing the hose and screw method from the previous owner. I sprayed carb cleaner and no leaks. I failed to check the plate where the EGR is. Tomorrow I plan to replace the fuel filter and I'll check for leaks at the EGR location. Although, I don't think it matters much as this is on the exhaust side and not the intake/ vacuum side. Not certain how to check either- carb cleaner won't work, I don't think, on the exhaust side.
Got off the Gulf a bit late this afternoon- the good news is I have fish to grill, the bad is that I didn't work on the mini at all today. I capped off the carb ports with vacuum caps, replacing the hose and screw method from the previous owner. I sprayed carb cleaner and no leaks. I failed to check the plate where the EGR is. Tomorrow I plan to replace the fuel filter and I'll check for leaks at the EGR location. Not sure of the method to check though as it's on the dirty side and not the intake/ vacuum side. View attachment 12386
That egr port comes from the exhaust manifold on one side but the other side runs through a built in line in the intake just down stream from the carb so there is a big time source of vac if that gasket isn't adequate.It looks good in your pic but worth checking any way. Way to go on the fishing.Probably the best thing for a mans sanity.
OK; it sucks.... I guess I'll go get some high temp Permatex and try to seal it off. The other option would be to get an EGR and Canister to rig back to OEM. I can keep it running by feathering the gas, so it's not horrible- just not right.
I've never had mine off, do you mind posting a pic of the ports for everyone? Have you considered ordering the OEM gasket?
Here is an intake man. with the egr off.You can see the 2 ports,1 from the exhaust side and the other feeding into the built in channel over the throat to #3 cylinder dumping into the fuel mix supply just downstream from the carb.
Yep, that's it. Looking at the gasket that came off, after spraying carb cleaner, it appears mine was leaking around the port labeled A. I sealed the plate with High Temp Permatex and will let it cure 24 hours. I'll test it again tomorrow evening.
Cool, keep in mind that aluminum vs steel have very different expansion rates. The permatex should make up the difference and will probly be ok. Long term, I'd go with an aluminum plate and OEM gasket, but I see your already done. FYI, I have 2-coolant nipples that come off the back side. Jim, I see the one you posted only has 1...huh..just when you thought you got them all figured out...
Wasn't even thinking past the leak- you are of course correct. If it doesn't seal up, or if it comes loose later, I'll go w/ aluminum and OEM gasket. I was also looking around the backside of my carb. Seems ass though the only adjustments I have to fiddle with are the air/ fuel mix and throttle adjustment on the front side. Everything on the back side, to include the fast idle are not functional. I'm guessing because there is not A/C or automatic trans. What's a good starting point of the air/ fuel mix?
Cu'z you're not there yet, like the fast idle. The last pic I saw had the vacuum switch, on the left side engine top; disconnected. The backside idle stop..no F port connection. Are the parts even there? Post a pic.. Ho yea, that A/F screw is not an A/F screw. It's just a very fine emissions adjustment for CO/NO... Won't do nothing for you.
I know I don't have an EGR, canister, or TPS. I capped off all the ports on the carb except the choke and distributor. I also capped the "F" thermo/vac EGR switch on the manifold and the port that previously had the distributor run to it (pics 2 and 3 on post #1). Pic was too large to upload, here's a link to the backside of the carb: https://picasaweb.google.com/105094...hkey=Gv1sRgCMHjoeq-steSAg#5897966912914812850 I still need info on: Where does the F port from the carb run to? Do I need a choke delay in the line going to the choke- if so, is it a common part I can pick up in a part store? There's a vacuum stem on the back of the air cleaner- what should that be hooked up to, or should I cap it as well? Finally- I pulled the distributor cap off to check the contacts- they're all burnt/corroded/trashed. All those parts are Mitzubishi, which I guess is correct for the Suzuki (strange to me...). Must I replace the ignition module at the same time, or only when it stops working?T Thanks again for all the guidance guys.
The best I can tell you is the pic I posted earlier with the vac lines all intact is pretty close to my other truck which is a '95 but with air and a different set up,apparently,than yours.Your truck has been clobbered up so much I think you will just have to switch things around til you find what works best for you.The most important thing I think is to stop all vac leaks first then start fooling with it to get it the best you can unless of course you want to try to get it all back to original,if you can even figure out what original was.I've never been in to the dizzy farther than caps and rotors,didn't even know they had points.My Scrum has 131,000km and runs like a top so I've never had reason to look into the dizzy.
Ho, ha, one at at time dair mang, Get some theory, go work on it... Come back and get some more. Then read some other stuff. Enjoyment is part of it too, no? Choke restrictor, this is so that the butterfly valve moves SLOWLY, independent of engine speed/vacuum pulse, and is not chattering up and down (first stage choke). Also, after an initial start and stall out when cold, wait for 15s, so that the choke has a chance to close back up...ha, see. Have you pulled a vacuum at the actuator to confirm no leaks? How about some Armoral in there, on the rubber? Is it all cracked and spidered? Jamb your line onto the nipple first, to make the line bigger. Insert small round piece of plastic. Drill tiny hole in plastic. Re-install line. Confirm operation of choke. Adjust choke RPM speed, 2500ish...check complete cycle of choke, look for leaks, check for heat... Continue. Otherwise it's pretty hard to help out a jump'en jack rabbit...
OK, got it- one thing at a time. I just had to fiddle while I was waiting for the permatex to cure. I noticed how crappy the contacts were and there's no doubt I had to replace. I guess I should get a tach too so I know my rpms. I haven't pulled vacuum but I should. I guess that could be a cause of surging? I'll head to the parts store tomorrow to purchase a hand vacuum gauge. Any recommendations?
I like the mity vac unit because it is so versatile, you can check vacuum,bleed brakes,pull a vacuum to check diaphragms or check valves or restricters.pretty handy little kit.Around $30 an Amazon or if you have a Harbor Freight near by they carry them also as well as a China knockoff.
Dare you go, What I was trying to say, and could have said a little nicer probly, if you go too fast, you're going to miss stuff. You'll just get to the surface of a subject and/or fix and never get really deep into the muck of it. Like the choke, wait a minute there...I seem to remember that the nipple on the carb already has a restrictor inside the nipple... Maybe I should pull the green bulb and get back to you to make sure what it actually is. Last time I had it off was two years ago. TBC..
