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Compare Apples to Apples

Discussion in 'General Truck Info' started by oldplug1, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. oldplug1

    oldplug1 Member

    Well, I still have not decided on a mini truck.
    I am however more intrigued by these little trucks then any ATV/UTV I have looked at in the last few years.
    I like to ask a lot of questions before I take the plunge.

    On a lot of the web sites I have looked at they compare KEI's to ATV's.
    When it comes to the bottom line about price, most compare a used KEI to a new ATV.

    Does someone out there have the ability to compare a 1998 Kei to a 1998 Gator, Ranger, Rino, Mule. I just picked this year to get a look at 10 year old stock. i would really like to

    I do not think price is the biggest issue between these models. Durability, maintenance, Parts availability, and length of service would play a big roll for most shoppers

    My thinking is that the tough nut to crack in selling these is, parts and service.

    Thanks,
    Jim
     
  2. zbadboy

    zbadboy Member

    If you want to compare a 1998 Kei to a 1998 Gator, Ranger, Rino, Mule. Look one up on traderonline and compare the price. As far as I'm concerned it is still not apples to apples. It's more like Apples to Kumquats.

    First, what kind of condition would a 10 year old atv be in compared to the Kei Truck.

    Second, a Kei truck with 50,000 miles on it is not even have way through it's life. An atv with 50,000 miles (if you can find one) would be done.

    Third, (combines one and two) the Kei truck is built to vehicle specifications for durability and longevity.

    Just my thoughts.

    Jeff
     
  3. dwink

    dwink Member

    I agree with zbadboy, these trucks are not comparable to atv's. Parts are not an issue, they are readily available, just use the search feature on this site or google parts and you'll find many sites that can get you what you want. If service is an issue, find a reputable dealer who provides service after the sale and buy a mini truck from them. I have rebuilt several atv's and the dealers almost always never had the parts I needed. I've always ordered parts on-line which is how most mini truck parts are ordered. It is definately a wise decision to weigh the facts before purchasing anything, but don't let parts or service be the reason why you do't purchase a mini truck. I've owned both atv's and minis and there is no contest between the two.
     
  4. oldplug1

    oldplug1 Member

    I'm on your side

    I agree that a KEI will long out-last an ATV.
    As far as no comparison with an ATV goes, I don't agree. That is what almost ALL the KEI dealers compare their units to. The ATV/UTV is the trucks major competitor.

    Hunters and Farmers seem to be the best market at this time. If dealers are going to be more then just a flash in the pan, they are going to have to find ways to attract corporate accounts. The USED issue is a big obstacle with corporate accounts

    I think the best way to compete is to show cold hard facts about the benefits of a KEI over the competition .

    I see a great future in the sales of these little trucks. If independent guys are going to try to take a market share away from the 700 lb. gorilla ( ATV/UTV )
    they are going to have to find new customers and innovative marketing solutions.

    This is the reason for my questions, not to start an argument , but to stimulate a little creative thinking, and get some feedback.

    Tnks,
    Jim
     
  5. zbadboy

    zbadboy Member

    oldplug1, the written word can always be misinterpetted. I certainly am not trying to cause an arguement:)

    Your right dealers do in fact compare them to ATV/UTV's mainly because there is nothing elso to compare them to and also because they fall into the users that would consider a kei truck.

    Your statement was "When it comes to the bottom line about price, most compare a used KEI to a new ATV."

    I agree that is not a fare "comparison". My response is there is no comparison when it comes to a used ATV/UTV and a used kei truck.

    "Hunters and Farmers seem to be the best market at this time. If dealers are going to be more then just a flash in the pan, they are going to have to find ways to attract corporate accounts. The USED issue is a big obstacle with corporate accounts"

    First of, there are some flash in the pan dealers. However, there are some dealers that have been established for 5 years or better.
    On the issue of corporate accounts, I couldn't agree with you more. No way around that one.

    "I think the best way to compete is to show cold hard facts about the benefits of a KEI over the competition."

    Most dealers do this with examples of enclosed cab, heat, a/c, radio, versatility of the pickup bed, etc....

    "I see a great future in the sales of these little trucks. If independent guys are going to try to take a market share away from the 700 lb. gorilla ( ATV/UTV )
    they are going to have to find new customers and innovative marketing solutions."

    Great idea but have no plans of taking on any Gorilla's.:eek: I think we provide a nitch market that appeals to certain people.

    The main limitation I see to these vehicles is the size of the cab which automatically disqualifies some buyers. However, the most that I have found is not being able to drive them on the road even in a limited capacity. There are far more unsafe vehicles that are allowed on the road such as gulf carts and electric cars with a max speed of 40mph.:frustration:

    I appreciate any creative thinking.

    Jeff
     
  6. oldplug1

    oldplug1 Member

    Thanks

    Do you know what seems to be The Governments main objection to having limited road access for Mini Trucks?
     
  7. Colin

    Colin Member

    They're not tested as "high speed vehicles" by the EPA.
     
  8. andy_george

    andy_george Member

    I spent a good 2 hours on the phone a few weeks ago talking to the Michigan DOT and the state police. I was very courteous and polite, but I just pointed out the absurdity of being able to do major modifications to a Ranger or Gator, (windshield glass, horn, lights, seatbelts, etc.) and then the state would recognize it as a low-speed road approved vehicle after an inspection. My minicab, in stock form, met every requirement, and then some. The only reason anyone could give me is that minitrucks haven't been tested by the EPA for emissions or the DOT for crash worthyness (last I checked Gotors aren't crash tested either). I am 100% certain that my minicab puts out fewer harmful emissions and is safer in every regard than any other atv or utv on the market.

    Perhaps John Deere, Polaris, and the rest of the bunch are fighting to keep Kei's illegal on road- as that would make them much more appealing and certainly take away some of their sales.


    -Andy
     
  9. I had a customer that emissions tested his truck and it passed with flying colors. (he did have to put a new tail pipe and muffler on it due to some rust through). I have also heard that the Kei trucks have been crash tested in Japan, however have not been tested in the USA by the all knowing USDOT. They didn't do as poorly as one might expect.

    I think you hit on the nail on the head with the major ATV/UTV manufacturers not wanting them on the road in any way, shape or form. Lobbying money goes a long way.

    Just my $.02
     
  10. oldplug1

    oldplug1 Member

    Thats what I mean about the 700 lb. Gorilla

    I agree w/ you Andy,
    The Tractor and ATV industry surely has lobbyist working to protect their interests. These little trucks must seem like a threat to some ones back pocket.
     
  11. canoebuildah

    canoebuildah Member

    If I have the freedom and privilege (not right) to own and drive a motorcycle on public roads and highways, there is no argument that Kei's are not safe to operate on the same roads. If any government agency claims the vehicles are not safe then those same agencies need to remove all motorcycles and mopeds from the roads. Good luck to them as they fight the motorcycle industry, Hell's Angels and everyone between them.

    I am a corporate user, I guess. The business I work for bought the truck for use on our property. It is an ideal vehicle for our purposes other than the manual transmission. We have many different drivers during the summer when our camp is in operation. We have found that just because someone claims to know how to drive a stick, doesn't mean they know how to drive it well.

    Our biggest issue with these trucks is availability of service and parts. We do not have a mechanic on staff. We use a local repair shop for all of our vehicles. The mechanic doesn't want to deal with a vehicle he doesn't know and has no reference or repair manual. All the parts on the truck are labeled in Japanese. It would be nice to have some one local who would take the time to repair it but we are in a rural location and don't have have many options.

    If these vehicles are going to succeed with the corporate/business market, there needs to be a reliable and convenient source for parts and get the Japanese manuals translated to English. As far as I know, Daihatsu is the only manufacturer with an English repair manual. If someone knows of one for the early 90's Mitsubishi's, let me know.
     
  12. Dan

    Dan Member

    I've got the parts book and service manual for the americanized mitsubishis that were brought here up to 1995. (550 Leftys). What are the legal reprocussions of having these copied?? Many have asked for me to duplicate them and offer them for sale. Any thoughts or advice?? I'll relay any of the info you might need.
     
  13. canoebuildah

    canoebuildah Member

    I am not a lawyer so I won't give any advice on that front.

    The 91 Mitsu I have has the 660 and RHD so it doesn't sound like it will help me much. From what I understand there are not many of the 550 LHD's around. The engine info must be different but other parts might cross over.
     
  14. ibkg

    ibkg Member

    I'm not a lawyer but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night LOL! :D Hummm...... I think there are alot of the left hand drive trucks still out there you just got to know where to look they are kind of like the old International trucks you don't wear them out you just get tired of them and run them in the woods LOL! :D
     
  15. Ak thrower

    Ak thrower Member

    All this talk about making these road legal ..... I'm not sure I'd want to meet a full sized truck or a semi on the road with a mini !
    I'm thinking when I get mine , I'll keep it off-road .

    Bret
     
  16. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Nothing like going head to head with a logging truck in the forestry area. :eek:
     
  17. zbadboy

    zbadboy Member

    When I think about road use I am talking about states that approve limited use of Golf Carts, ATV's, UTV's, etc... for limited road use. I am not talking about road use for travel across I40 east coast to west coast.:eek: There is no reason these vehicles shold not be approved for the same limited use as it compares to Golf Carts, ATV's, UTV's, etc...

    Just my thoughts.


    Jeff
     
  18. Ak thrower

    Ak thrower Member

    I agree ! But throw common sense out the window and someone will do just that ! :rolleyes:
     
  19. Colin

    Colin Member

    Poppycock! Any vehicle is safe until you screw up and plant it firmly into the grille of an Excursion. :rolleyes:

    I've been in communication with Tim at Subic Bay Mini-Trucks. He says, "I am in the process of having the Japanese manuals translated into English, but its a long process, But its a must do item." :)

    Colin
     
  20. dwink

    dwink Member

    I don't want to step on any toes, but this thread was started about comparing apples to oranges (atv to minis). ATV's have their advantages and the minis have theirs. Most people, with the exception of a few on this site are purely mini truck enthusiasts who could care less about how to grow sales. The mini truck niche has created a demand for parts and several companies have emerged to supply the demand. On the corporate side, their are several minis that have been commercially available for years with parts and service available. If service is an issue, an atv might be a better route. If extreme offroad performance is an issue, an atv might be be better as well. In pure utility performance situations a mini truck doesn't compare to an atv. Especially in all-weather situations considering they have a dry cab, radio, heater, and AC. I don't sell minis and I could care less about sales in the US. I did sell several 4-wheelers so I could purchase my first mini. I also enjoy working (modifying) on my 99 Mitzi just as much as I enjoy driving it. It is very wise to take time in making a decision on whether to purchase a mini or an atv/utv. I would recommend trying to find a dealer who might let you try one, to see if it might work for your needs. Please take might comments as no disrespect to your opinion or anyone who prefers atv's over minis.
     
  21. oldplug1

    oldplug1 Member

    Thanks Fellows

    I think your comments very well answered some questions I had.
    This thread did tend to drift a little from the main subject, and I am the one that opened the door to that one. Thats Ok I liked where it went.
    If any of you have been following my questions on the board, it not hard to see that I have more then just an interest in buying a mini truck. The business aspect of these trucks is of interest as well.
    Tnks,
    Jim
     
  22. leeb

    leeb New Member

    I drive mine, 36 mile round trip, to work everyday, it's not a problem. A really windy day can be a little agravating.
     
  23. Wolfman

    Wolfman Member


    My favorite argument. You'll be just as dead against a semi in anything that you're gonna be driving.

    I've ridden motorcycles cross country. I don't lose any sleep over what may happen to me in my minitruck when I'm buzzing around the highways here, and yes, I do get on the major highways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  24. Colin

    Colin Member

    +1

    I usually catch an awesome tailwind on the way into town, then battle a headwind all the way home. :frustration:

    One thing's for sure: you become VERY aware of the significance of aerodynamics and wind direction/speed when you drive a 40hp Kleenex box. :p

    Colin
     
  25. Samurai9

    Samurai9 Member

    My impression is that many of the people in this forum are familiar with working on cars and like to do so. Such people are not afraid of a fifteen year old truck that comes without manuals and without the kind of dealer and parts support enjoyed by a Ford Ranger. I have ridden on a four wheeler and a Polaris Ranger. The ATV has no creature comforts and no cargo bed. The Polaris Ranger is much more suited to my needs but in standard form lacks a windshield, doors, and side windows, has only a small cargo bed, but can carry the driver and two passengers on a bench seat.

    The Japanese mini trucks were not designed for off-road use, hence all the anguish about big wheels, big tires, lift kits, and cut up doors and wheel wells. If you can get the offroad tire/wheel problem solved and can keep the truck functioning satisfactorily, the minis can be lots of fun and very useful.

    Just my opinion,

    Samurai
     
  26. Samurai9

    Samurai9 Member

    I just drove with a neighbor in his Kawasaki Mule. The vehicle went up my steep hill without a problem and was much smoother than my Hijet with big ATV tires. Perhaps I have too much air in my tires. The Mule's tires were much less aggressive. But we also drove the thing on the backwoods road as the temps were dropping. His vehicle had a partial windshield. The cold air hitting me on the body and face was quite unpleasant. At that point, I wished I were in my Hijet.

    Sam
     
  27. TetsuKuma

    TetsuKuma Member

    Gee, maybe the Gators, or other brands of ATV will slowly morph into minis over the next few years. First cabs, then extended beds, heaters, you name it...whalaaa! If you can't beat 'em into the ground with regulations you might as well join them! This is going to be interesting...
     

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