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Cold weather start and timing

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by TenneSuzi, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    My new (to me) 97 DB51T flat won't start in temps below about 24 F. Turns over fine, might fire once only after pumping the pedal 6 or 8 times.

    Cleaned up the rotor and cap contacts, plugs are good, replaced the coil. Sea Foamed the carb (which really helped the power) added HEAT anti-icer to the fuel.

    It's getting spark and fuel. Timing at high idle is at 9 degrees, low idle is about 18 degrees. Has a bit of a rough idle at low idle but not too bad.

    It starts reliably above35 F or so without pumping the pedal or anything...

    Any ideas?

    Kirk
     
  2. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    My 1992 just started to do the same thing, so if anybody knows please tell us. Mine runs good after it warms-up if I can start it.
     
  3. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

  4. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    Mine does too but this would not stop it from starting, it would just not run as well when cold until warm up!
     
  5. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    Warm air diverter and ducting are working as they should. Probably wouldn't have made a difference on the initial start though since nothing is warm at that point.

    Kirk
     
  6. Stuff99

    Stuff99 Moderator Staff Member

    hold pedal down and crank it?
     
  7. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    I tried that and it doesn't work. I have to pump mine and hope it fires before it floods.
     
  8. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    take off the intake rubber bellows between the carb and airfilter (when the engine is dead cold) turn the key to the on but not start position and look at the choke butterfly.....see how much it's open at cold choked position..it should be almist completely closed
     
  9. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    Fupa is right

    -16ºC (+3ºF) this morning, so I removed snorquel from carburator pushed the choke plate shut and my Carry fired right-up. Now that we found what the problem is "what's the cure?" is the next question. By the feel it seems like there's a weak spring. Only about 1/8 of an inch play but it makes all the difference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  10. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    While you are moving the choke plate by hand find where the adjustment screw is located..should be attached to a vacuum operated plunger arm with the adjuster screw on it
     
  11. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    Hmmm, wish mine was that simple. Checked as you suggested and choke is fully closed when cold. I wonder about the carb, but have no info on how to set one up.

    I also wonder about the timing since at low idle it is about 18 degrees, high idle 9 degrees. Distributor is adjusted all the way to the advance stop. Backing it off from that, it dies at low idle and won't even start warm.

    Book calls for 8 to 10 at 900 RPM, I don't have a tach yet. Is 900 RPM about right for high or low idle?

    Kirk
     
  12. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    low idle should be around 900rpm and bumping the timing a few degrees as most have to around 12btdc.....if you can't adjust the timing higher than 8degrees at low idle there is a problem...also having less advance at cold/high idle isn't helping...sounds like a vacuum problem..there are a lot of vacuum lines and it's easy to get an unnoticed leak..check the centrifical advance weights on your dist shaft under the rotor..they may be sticking
     
  13. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    TenneSuzi mine looked close but when I pushed at the top I could push it close a little more and that is all it took. Held it closed and it started right up if I would release the pressure on the plate it would start to die. So kept and froze my finger tip on the plate and it cycled through warmup perfectly.
     
  14. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    Fupa I can't find an adjustment screw or nut. I'm going to have to study this up close. Spring is not broken but I think that plunger can be moved on the rail a bit. But I don't want to move it before I get any kind of advice. Don't want my actions to snowball.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  15. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    I figured it out!!! If you look at this drawing you will see a part which I've painted gray. This is the actual choke adjusment, it is toothed along the inside painted blue and sits on a teflon gear (painted red). The yellow painted philips screw clamps this lever down so; loosen this yellow screw and move the gray lever upwards to close choke more and down to open choke. The gray lever's pivot point is at yellow screw. Very little movement is necessary to move a lot so be gentle. Don't over do it because choke won't come off. After this minute adjustment my truck now starts perfectly. Thanks for all your help!!!!:)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  16. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    Sweet...good work...sorry couldn't be much help with the location of the choke adjustment..I haven't seen a good pic of the Suzuki carb...your diagram with the colours should be a sticky so others can find it
     
  17. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    You know the feeling you get when you solve a problem without going to the garage and paying a whole bunch of money. Well I'm having that feeling now, and it feels good. Just went outside just to start it and it did! :pop:
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  18. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    TenneSuzi mine is timed at 11º at 900rpm and I remember having lots of adjustment either way when I timed it. But this timing is where mine worked the best. Maybe your timing belt has jumped a cog.
     
  19. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    Yeah, I wonder about the internal timing. Shows 18 to 20 degrees at low idle and I think it was 9 at high idle.

    I'll get another look when it is cold to make sure that choke is ALL the way closed.

    The only manual I have is the Engine and Parts Manual by James Danko. It doesn't have anything on vacuum, ignition or vacuum. So of course that is where all my problems lie.

    I tried a PM to Don in Japan for his carb setup sheet, no reply yet. Thanks very much for the help guys. Love this truck once it is running. Had it out in the snow today and rode great.

    Getting the plow from Allied Accessories this week, but probably won't be able to put it on until next week.

    GREAT DRAWING!! Sticky that puppy before it gets lost!

    Kirk
     
  20. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    I know I have the same book. Not worth much but that's where I got the picture. When you look at the choke spring it should not be loose below freezing. I might have to tweak mine later but so far it starts right away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  21. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    Must be a different book. Mine doesnt have any detail on carb, vacuum or ignition.

    Took a look at the distributor. Couldn't really tell how the mechanical advance worked. Sprayed some electronic part cleaner in. Weather has warmed up now so I'm not sure if I've made any progress.

    Kirk
     
  22. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    Page 77 in my book no details just pictures.
     
  23. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    :(This morning my throttle cable is frozen solid. Darn!
     
  24. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    Sprayed cable with alchool yesterday. This morning at -20ºC(-4ºF) it started on about the fourth turn. So my choke problem is solved. Went for a drive and lost the muffler.:eek:
     
  25. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    I thought they stopped selling alcool years ago...
     
  26. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    Whatever (hool) that is in brake cleaner. It worked and dispersed the water from the cable.
     
  27. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    It could be alcool,I just haven't seen it forever...used to use it to open frozen pipes...supposedly some guys were drinking it and dying..good thing it worked for you:)
     
  28. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    Sprayed some electronic parts cleaner in the distributor. Couldn't figure out how the advance mechanism works. Some crazy looking points there. Do they need to be adjusted?

    Finally had a cool morning, 20 F and it did start up after some cranking and one pump of the pedal. So might have some improvement.

    Thanks to all for the tips!
     
  29. MiniBrutes

    MiniBrutes Member

    You shouldnt have points in a "97".

    If you do, someone has done some modifying or swapping and you may be in uncharted waters.
     
  30. TenneSuzi

    TenneSuzi New Member

    Well, maybe not points in the mechanical sense. That I don't see in there. I do see on the rotor shaft a 3 lobe piece that makes electrical contact as it turns.

    Where the F*&#K is a decent manual on these things? I've got the Danko "service and parts" manual. But it has nothing on electrical, igntion, fuel or vacuum. Naturally, that is where all my problems lie. :frustration:

    Kirk
     

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