1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Clicky With No Start.

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by Big_Adam, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Afternoon,

    I come to you fine lot with a problem, so I'm probably posting this in the wrong place, if so, sorry about that.

    Anyway, I have a 2001 Suzuki Carry which has served me very well for the past few months.

    Today, I got in, turned the key and here a sound akin to a solenoid going crazy but no cranking. I thought it might be the batteries so I checked it, 12v, tried jumping just in case, same noise again.

    Got my uncle over to turn the key while I gave the starter a knock, still nothing. I still think its the starter but I can't get the ruddy thing off either (two bolt, 1 can of WD40 and it just won't budge).

    I'm not rather lost what to do. I've worked on Mini (proper ones) for years now, so I thought I'd be alight here but I'm just stuck now.

    Any suggestions on either what to check or how to get the starter off?
     
  2. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    righty tighty lefty loosey? :confused:
     
  3. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Its unbolted, but it won't come off. Tried hitting it with a rubber mallet and it won't budge.

    Its two bolts, they came out easy enough but I haven't gotten the starter to move a millimetre.
     
  4. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry, couldn't resist. Welcome to the board. ;)

    Thats kinda strange indeed. Im sure someone can confirm if you just need to hit it harder.
     
  5. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    I slightly debating just hooking to the starter direct to check it, knowing my luck though it would either explode or fire off and smack me in the head.

    Also, any idea what that area of the car is made of? There's a few bits I could leaver against or jam a screw driver into, bit I'm not sure if its alloy or steel.

    Edit

    Video of the noise and lack of starting ; http://youtu.be/_lgSZ8WMv40
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  6. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Yup, right place...

    Sometimes you just need some encouragement. Your ideas are right, and then you go off on a tangent, cu'z you're confused. Put the bolts back in and jump the starter with booster cables off of a different truck. Starter isolated. Then maybe you have to take it off, but I don't think so. A chattering relay is a symptom of low voltage, at the relay. Test it there, where you were drawn to in the first place.

    Just looked at your video. I should be more descriptive.
    Remove battery
    Remove all electrical connections from the starter
    Jump starter, out of gear, yes, from a running truck
    If OK, jump again from your battery that was removed
    You just eliminated a whole bunch of I don't knows...
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  7. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Right, spare bat, hooked it up and the most I got was some sparks off the ignition switch? (Not the main 12v or ground) but the motor made no noise at all. Spare bat is putting out 12.45v fairly new and has been charged a bit so I might stick it on over night to charge.

    On testing the relay, how do I do that?

    I know there are 4 in the box by the bat, I know one clicks with the starter position on the key. I tried to get it out, but I'll be damned if my fat frozen fingers can do it. Can I stick some grips and pull, or is there a special tool for these relays?
     
  8. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Ho, man...lets pretend that you didn't just do that, and try again.
    You were going to remove the starter to test it right?
    You don't have to unbolt it to test it, but you do need to unplug it.
    Then you're off pulling relays?


    *********not to you, but everyone*******
    I am so fed-up with people quoating a voltage of their battery to justify that it is OK, and working properly. No, no, no.....load tester.


    I can string 8 watch batteries together an get 12v on any meter you care to test it with. Sure as hell ain't going to crank a starter over.

    :frustration::frustration::frustration:
     
  9. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Aye, I'm not the brightest bulb of the bunch. I shall try with the bat from my mum's car when she gets off work. As I've got no access to anything else. I did unplug the starter before lumping another bat on. Hmmm, or my dad might be in, so I'll check in with him to.

    Sorry to cause frustration.
     
  10. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Nope, not causing frustration, you're just asking, I'm trying to explain.

    Might be a bit of description confusion as well. You ment connection sparks at the point of contact of the booster cables on the starter?
    And, not "sparks off the ignition switch", cu'z "I did unplug the starter before...".

    If you park your mum's car beside the truck and then start the car...
    Car battery is good 100%
    You then jump from the car to the starter, which has no wires on it
    ***do you know how to connect to the starter?....nevermind, post a pic of the starter***
    If starter does not turn,
    1) it's jambed up
    2) it's fried
    3) brushes worn

    etc.

    You go one step at a time, it's not a treasure hunt...:D

    I had this exact same problem on my focus not two weeks ago, just like you're video. Had someone boost me, made no difference, then it cranked. Then it "clickety clacked", 10 minuts later, cranked over. Then "clickety clack". Drove around for a week like that until it could get into the dealer, BtoB warrenty..:cool: Called me two days later, "we could not find a problem....we have to wait until it breaks"....never did it again.

    Your lucky, you're broken. I'm driving around in a car that I have no confidence in.:eek:
     
  11. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Okay, I'll give that a shot tomorrow then, too cold and dark now.

    Fun old morning it should be too.
     
  12. Little Digger

    Little Digger Member

    Don't know if your starter is the same but this is my old starter. All wiring disconnected from the starter, With the truck OUT of gear, park brake ON, with jumper cables on a good batt, place ground cable on a clean bolt on the engine or trans, make sure the cable is grounded!!, then touch the positive cable to the right side stud on the starter solenoid; this should turn the starter motor. If the motor turns then it's ok. Next hook the positive cable to the left side stud on the starter solenoid, there should not be any sparks when this connection is made. Then with a small wire touch the bottom spade type connector [ green tape ] to the positive cable on the left side of the starter solenoid, this should engage the starter and turn the engine over. If it just clicks or nothing happens then you have a bad solenoid, I hope this helps ya , Let us know what ya find:pop: Spaner : I think I got this right didn't I ??
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Morning chaps.

    So I borrowed a car and got to work,

    Tried jumping from a running car, no dice. So I tried direct (after unhooking the starter from anything).

    [​IMG]

    I hooked the main 12v to the bolt the original 12v feed was on, clamped a ground cable to the engine (tested it was grounded with continuity tester), connected spade connector (brown wire, yellow spade) to 12v of the 12v from the other car and ....

    Nothing. Not a click, not a sound, just a few sparks ... which probably means I've done something wrong.

    So, either I did it wrong (most likely) or starter is dead, right?
     
  14. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Well, if you did all that, then, you now have the problem isolated to this spot.
    Now do like Little Digger explained. Put the + jumper down one bolt, (direct starter)***Just tap it there, make note of the "sparkage" level****
     
  15. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    So put big clampy 12v to other bolt?

    Shall be my tomorrow then, if nothing happens then I assume its utterly broken?

    As I'm going to have to make a tool to get the thing off (I'm thinking a Y shaped but of metal with two lugs on each end to fit in the starter motor bolt holes, place on starter motor and give a crack with a hammer)
     
  16. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    Well, you see what you just did was test the "starter system". If nothing happened, no "snapping", then you just confirmed the solenoid to be faulty. Moving big + jumper to bottom bolt will test starter directly. Checking for spin of motor only.

    This is very easy to me. It's more of an exercise in descriptive writing, and step by step trouble shooting.
     
  17. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Gotcha, my thinking always goes "there's nothing attached to that, therefore nothing should be attached".

    So I'll try that tomorrow then.
     
  18. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    This is why I find it interesting. I know what you mean, by what you just wrote.
    But, to me, you see, there IS something attached to it.
    There is a braided steel connector running from the solenoid, through a rubber "isolator", into the starter motor body.

    If the motor turns, you may still not be to the point of having to remove it.
     
  19. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    As I've only done inertia starters, how does the motor spinning and solenoid not working mean I don't have to take the starter off?
     
  20. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    the solenoid it self may just be stuck or more likely the magnet in the solenoid isn't getting power to push the armature forward and engage both the flywheel and battery power to spin the starter..the thick wire spaner mentioned that runs from the solenoid to the starter motor is like a relay and gets it's signal from the ignition wire to pop forward and engage the flywheel..when the armature pushes forward it also makes the contact to the direct battery power that will spin the starter..so a wiring problem can keep the ignition switch from sending the power to the solenoid...
     
  21. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    That's right. Once you confirm that the motor is functioning. You're now isolated to the solenoid only, as the problem. The most common malfunction here is carboned contacts in the relay portion of the solenoid. Or, a jambed slider in the housing; both have the same solution. To have a wire or contactor brake is actualy quite rare.

    Once you have confired that the motor spins..
    You can reconnect to the starter from the top post, as well as the ignition jumper.
    This is where you get to use the hammer....he..he...hammerrrr..
    Smash the solenoid body, don't hit the black part or you'll break it, and touch the jumper. What you're trying to do is break loose the carbon on the contactors in the relay portion of the solenoid. Do this as many times as you feel like trying. If it does break loose, don't worry, the truck won't start. Crank for a one count, stop, crank for a one count....do this about 20 times to clear the contactors.
    If it clears, could work fine for another 10 years.
    If it doesen't, then yea, you'll have to remove the starter to have the solenoid rebuilt.
     
  22. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Morning chaps and ladies,

    Okay, so I went out this morning and hooked the cables to the other bolt (from a running car, grounded again to engine), few sparks but no sound or movement.

    I then got my hammer I call THOR, a few taps up and down and the motor popped off.

    I tried the same tests in the garage and got nothing from the motor. So, I assume it borked/broken, before I go and start smashing bits I'm going to try the part shop for a price on a new starter (seem to range between £60-100).

    Sound right to everyone? I don't want to make an expensive mistake.
     
  23. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    On the morrow Adam, seems like a fortnight since she belched.
    Again, I'm not sure, from your description, if it twas the starter motor, or the motor proper that was spun. No matter, a good try it was. A replacement of the unit will solve all, no matter.
    To remove the unit, I will describe, as I should have from the beginning.
    A twist, and a smash...just a moment..

    ...
     
  24. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Is it odd, I now read that in a Yoda like staccato. Motor is off, tested on the bench, nothing happening. So I'll plod down to the part shop for a price in a bit.
     
  25. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    ...


    Ha ha...not at all..

    One hundred pound is a steal, if it can be had.


    ...
     
  26. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    may as well get the parts shop to bench test it for free while you are there
     
  27. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    Brit part shops don't seem to have testing facility, mostly due to being served by berks who think spoilers really make cars faster or they just don't have the facilities to do so and never had.

    Anyway, went to the part shop, 10 mins of searching, looking at the wrong van (UK has a van called a SUPER CARRY also Suzuki, but based off an older van), got told £70 odd.

    Going to see tomorrow if its the same, anything I should check? I assume teeth number on the small gear and general size of it.
     
  28. Ran440

    Ran440 Member

    Big Adam
    Just wondering. When you disconnected all the starter wires and used a different battery and jumper cables, did you connect the (-) jumper cable directly to the starter?
    I mean if the starter is corroded in, it may not be getting proper ground.
    Just a thought. Maybe you already covered this.
     
  29. Big_Adam

    Big_Adam New Member

    I placed the motor in a vice and tried it there, no deal. I may go try again in a bit. The motor was corroded in, hence the hammer, so might be worth another look.

    Edit

    Nope, still nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  30. Keeping Tempo

    Keeping Tempo New Member

    If you have not tried this already... I think your starter is jammed up and will need rebuilt, but first you have to get it off, right? So, I'd suggest rolling the vehicle and popping the clutch like you were push starting it...just to be sure the starter has acually released from the flywheel. If it was still engaged, that should free it up. You can do this with the starter unbolted and ignition off, or bolt it back up and try to get it running. If you get it running you may hear the starter still hung up in there. After you do one of those options, try removing the starter again. FYI, it should cost between $90.00- $115.00 to rebuild that starter
     

Share This Page