I changed my CV boots on the front passenger side axle yesterday. All seemed to go well. However, i booger'ed up all the snap rings and ring clips pretty good in the process. For conversation's sake here are a list of rings that i found during the job and what im calling them. 1. outer cv joint ring clip small 2. inner cv joint ring clip large (holds axle in telescoping cup) 3. inner cv joint ring clip small (holds cup onto the diff) 4. inner cv joint snap ring small (holds ball berring cage on axle shaft) items 1 and 4 really faired ok. Items 2 and 3 were mangled. I was able to repair item 2 and install it after slipping the cage past it in the cup. Item 3 was destroyed in the repair. My problem is now that the cup (or inner CV joint) is poping out of the diff a little and leaking most likely because i have no ringclip in there anymore. =\ So i need to find a replacement, and i need to know why it poped out so easy and took a 5lb sledge to get it back in (ruining it in the process). thanks in advance, o8k
maybe im not using the proper names for these clips. 1,2,& 3 are just circular wires with a gap so they can snap into place. 4 is a real snap ring with little holes so you can use snap ring plyers to install/remove them.
well ugh... oops! i found the source of my leak... =( Question 1: can that bent part be replaced w/ out a new diff? Question 2: If question 1 is true... Anyone have a ruined diff i can buy off ya so i can try an replace that bent axle shaft housing? Question 3: if question1 is false: Anyone have a new diff i can buy off ya cheap? I put the thing up on blocks and let everything turn and drive. The drive train does not appear to be damaged, no weird noises, nice smooth operation... but it obviously leaks diff fluid now...
If anyone is curious, i used some universal boot kits from checker autoparts they were a bit big even when i sinched them to the axle shafts and the cage housing. so i RTV'ed em shut. Seemed to work...
Im still not sure if this happend from when i put the axle on or when i test drove it. Im about 80% sure it is from installation. However, when i was test driving it the day i worked on it, i was transitioning from pavment to dirt at about 30mph and heard a big bang when i flexed the suspension during transition. Not sure if that was the axle binding and causing the bend or just me runing over a large rock that kicked up and bumped the bottom of the truck some place. Either is possible. a hard flex could send the inner cv too far into its cup and bottom out causing such a bend in the housing where it goes into the diff. Hrm...
Im hopeing i can replace just that seal (should everything be ok in the diff). I may be able to beat it back into shape if i can get it apart and figure out how to remove it.... Although, im a bit tire of beating on this axle with a sledge for the moment...
wonder if somthing like this deal would work for my problem... http://www.automedia.com/Replacing_Axle_Seals/ccr20060401as/1
... Ouch...man what's up with that, most of the info that you needed was here.. http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=7089&referrerid=3615 You posted in this thread... Also stated, DO NOT use a hammer to assemble or install axles.."You will be sorry".....:frustration: I don't mean to bust your ball*, but that's really mangled, you must have really gotten pisse* off during the process. Also, just to change boots, you only have to split one joint, the easy one... Your seal damage is from a thrown axle, it tried to escape under suspention articulation, having no retainer. My part # for the cir clips for the outer joints is in the reff section, the inner shaft to diff cir clips are one size bigger (no #), the diff seals you will have to order....I've replaced mine...pop-out, tap-in, they are tight and are a BITC* to get in strait without mangaling them. Take your time with them.. This is how to put the axles together: Outer joint first... Put the cir clip on the shaft, in the grove, place a tie-wrap around the clip so that it is covered 100% and the opened end of the clip is where the joining section of the tie-wrap is..make it as tight as you can. Place the shaft end into the joint and hold it 6" above a solid floor and drop. The two peices will come together and the tie-wrap will move out of the way..then cut it off. If the two parts are assembled correctly, the joint and shaft will "giggle" considering the "play" between the cir-clip and the grove. Inner joint to diff... Very easy, the open end of the cir-clip MUST BE FACING DOWN on the shaft...as the half axle is horizontal, and ready to be installed. Slide into diff untill last 1/4" untill resistance is felt, and JERK in. Again, correctlly installed, the joint and diff connection will "giggle" considering the play. These are shop methods, and will work 99% of the time, if something dosen't assemble correctly, start over. The half shaft assembly design is not perfect but has not changed in decades. The last time I pulled a shaft from a diff, the cir-clip stayed IN THE DIFF... Three hours to get it out....:frustration::frustration::frustration: and I was banging my head like this for every one of them. Good luck buddy CAME BACK...man ho man..read your post again, reads like you assembled the inner joint to shaft incorrectly, how elce could you mangle the retainer-clip? The two different joint assembly processes are VERY different.....check out the post, at end for the outer joint. The inner joint assembles OPPOSITE....everything onto shaft first. Boot, then "gear", then retainer-clip, then cage, then balls, then into joint, then lock together with LARGE cir-clip, on inner ridge of cup, then close boot. Double good luck to you my friend, breath deeply, start ordering parts.....OEM on the diff seals... Inner or outer universal boot kit from retail ATV repair and parts (whole saler numbers) "Red Stallion" M 32-109 $ 25.00 (grease-boot-straps) Outer CV joint to axle shaft replacement C Clip retail ATV repair and parts (whole saler numbers) (piston retainer pin clip) B 420945735 $ 0.69 (each) Any ATV repair shop can ref these numbers... ...
Great info! really appreciate the response. the critical information i didn’t have wasn’t in that other post (far as i could tell). There seems to be enough required finesse in a job like this that if you never have seen someone do it, you may make a mess. I think you are right about the damage, i don’t remember seeing the damaged Axle seal when i installed the axle, i think it did like you said and jumped out with the suspension flex and caused said and illustrated carnage shown above. I cryed every time a hit anything with the hammer but its what all the stuff i saw on you tube illustrated. I'll man up and definitly admit that was a bad idea and im paying for it now... :frustration: Well i have to take it all down again and start over anyhow, ill take pictures this time to provide better visual aid. I believe i got the axle put back together no big problem (both inner and our CVs). I can definitely see how the zip tie trick would help on the outer CV. The inner CV was a cinch to get back together, but i could never figure the correct way to get it apart. To get it apart, i just beat on it with a hammer till it flew apart (ya well, that’s what the guys on youtube were doing... monkey see... monkey doo). DOH! But it came apart and back together without irreversible damage. The inner boot was the one that ripped, and i absolutely believe in break cleaner'ing (degreasing) it down to bare metal to get out the grit and to inspect, then repacking with grease. It was all educational and i believe went ok without major trouble. The part that screwed me up royal was reinstalling the axle back into the differential. All the ring clips like tripled in size upon disassembly which made putting it back in by finesse seemingly impossible. Plus the part about leaving the open end down upon installation, I just didn’t know that. So, I am going to try the Temkin 223542 seal, and the ring clip P/N B 420945735 this time round and hope all goes smooth. Trouble is, the zip tie thing wont work for installation of axle into differential =( BTW how much grease should I shove into the inner CV? I used all there was in that baggie but It looks like it could take lots more than the outer CV.
... I agree totally with your comments, and can understand where things went wrong. Also, I can see the short commings of the post that I quoated. Sometimes I leave out critical information that I assume.....IS KNOWN AND UNDERSTOOD. I just don't see the minutia sometimes, I just do it. The half shafts can be a moderate to advanced mechanical challenge. The tie-wrap technique is for the outer CV only, and is the solution for a vertical assembly. The diff to half shaft assembly is horizontal, hence, no need for a tie-wrap. The outer CV can not be dissasembled or reasembled horizontally. It's a mass and force relation thing, take my word for it, it's been well covered in shops for decades and the commertial guys on here are probably not too happy with me giving away secrets. The GOOD news, is that....after you are done, you can show anyone how to work on front half shafts......but, most likely, you will just end up doing it for them......because, it's easier than trying to explain it.... I can understand your desire to take everything apart, clean everything and reassemble....so that it is perfect....because that is what I would do, and have done....many..many times, and if you believe anything that I say, this is WHAT YOU MUST DO NOW. Hammer = contamination and your joints will have a limited life cycle because of it. You have to start over and clean everything. I would just get new boots and grease and start over, cause it's just too much of a pain in the as* to do otherwise. Both joints take the same amount of grease. If you packed the inner tight, you would get hydro lock and the joint would get pulled out of the diff, as the joint force would exeed the diff cir-clip retaining force. You have already put a lot of time into this...order OEM seals from your favorite sponsor...put a rush on it from Japan. Imagine, after the second time around, some "test seals" leak, you want no part of that my friend. Let me tell you how it is done in a shop, and how you should have done it: Place vehicle on hoist 6" above ground. Remove all four CV boot clamps. Pull back boot from inner CV bell housing. Remove inner CV joint cir-clip from inner lip. Remove lower control arm-to-frame retainer bolt. While seated on the ouside of the wheel, take a firm grip on the underside of the wheel and pull outward, untill inner joint assemble falls free. Remove inner CV race assemble retainer clip from half shaft. Remove bearing/race assembly from half shaft. Remove both inner and outer boots. Assembly is the reverce of the above. What can I say....one hour per side...and no playing around with the diff. If you go to a shop, this is what they will do, if they know what they are doing, but us "do it yourself" guys want to go ALL the way....and this is where we get into BARNY.... RUBBLE... TROUBLE!!! :frustration: ...
Well I ended up rebuilding the axle seal (which seems to be working for the moment) and found a clip that worked for the 1/2 shaft (hopefully that’s the correct name for it). I’m now back on the road. The ATV shop that helped me find the clip also helped me fix the axle seal and even had a spring retainer that fit as a replacement to the one I had that was bent up inside. So far no leaks, it all looks good. I still think that the whole giggle thing is beyond my abilities, and I wasn’t giggling at any time during the process accept at myself for getting into this mess. However, after studying it for a few hours last night, I came to the following hypothesis (conclusion). 1. The ring that holds the 1/2 shaft in place (inner CV cup) inside the diff, popped out real easy for me and expanded much beyond its original size because it’s supposed to. This is how it holds the 1/2 shaft in place. Keep reading… 2. When fully compressed the ring clip is non-interfering with the splines and the shaft can slide easily in and out, but when allowed to expand (or bind in my case) it is interfering. So when its installed, its space inside the diff is big enough for it to expand and interfere. Thus preventing the 1/2 shaft from hopping out on ya when you hit a bump (like i did). 3. When I reassembled everything the oversize of the ring caused it to bind inside the splines and created interference (which I overcame with a sledge hammer). Side note -- this was not the right thing to do. 4. Spanner said let the "open end" of the ring clip face down!!! He said this because when you do this, it will allow you to insert the 1/2 shaft into the diff and compress the spring preventing binding and preventing interference. If it faces up, it will most likely bind as the non open end is hanging out and could fold over the splines. After a bit of fiddling on the bench, this became clear to me why this was. It’s NOT because its “keyed” in some way inside the diff. It’s simply because the extra space from its oversize is minimized by the open end thanks to Mr. gravity. 5. Once you get that far you "should" be able to slide 1/2 shaft with a little giggle jiggle and work the 1/2 shaft to the spot where the ring clip can "open back up all big" and create interference again., all without the use of a hammer or any other force (well maybe with exception to using Jedi mechanic force). In my case, the clip substitute I had was partly bench grinded and buffed to be what it needed to be based on the above criteria mentioned. I think I reverse engineered the clip enough to know how it works. I did use the aid of a rubber mallet to install the second time due to my “homemade” clip but my clip also doesn’t interfere (much) when compressed, but a little because its hand made, and my clip still pops open real big when uncompressed. The ½ shaft now moves back and forth (in the grove) much as the other axle does that I haven’t fooled with. If i had to guess i would say this movment is like 1/64th of an inch or less. The End. (hopefully…)
Special thanks to Spaner for coming to the rescue again and to Southwest Motor Sports here in Goodyear AZ for helping me goof w/ my busted axle seal and getting me parts for repairing it. Side note, i ordered the Temkin 223542 seal (cross from Nappa) and its way no good not even close. They kindly refunded me no problem.
Very philosophical post! Thanks for the help. Im actually supprised that the seal is holding (no leaks) seing as how we rebuilt it. I will still persue a new one, but this one is holding up for the time being.
