Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by mountain man, Jan 8, 2015.
Has anyone had any luck finding a aftermarket difflock or a source for a stock one?
A few yrs. there were a couple a guy's messing around with making a aftermarket locker.
Bull Dog Mini Trk was testing a prototype but shut his business down after getting a different job.
The other guy I can think of was mississippipilot that used to be on this site but I think he went on to a different hobby.
The Suz. I have been driving the last two yrs. has the rear diff. welded up and I believe Mike the owner of GRImports has a welded up rear diff. On his personal Trk. I'm not sure what is welded on them, never looked at it. It certainly makes a different off road. Not many places they won't go. I haven't abused mine so never had any problems, knock on wood.
With a welded up diff. You don't want to go fast and turn or you may break something back there.
There is a few post on the site where guys are talking about adding a locker. Try using the search function.
You could contact Yokahoma Motors in Japan (via Internet ) and ask them for a used oem set up/price or find someone that has welded up diff. In the past, 4x4 shop or the like.
Thanks for the reply, I thought about welding it but I do drive on the road quite a bit so that wont work. I could look for a used one yokohama is a good idea. I hoping for a easy bolt in but I guess im outta luck.
Instead of giving you a whole bunch of info that means that you can't do something, or that some option is just too outragious, I'll just tell you how to do it,
The correct info starts about here in the thread, and you can search Inane2 for his build thread and a lot of great pics and OEM parts. Every little OEM part right out of the box (Inane2), cu'z that's how he wanted to do it; respect...op:
That's how to do it; get the OEM rear locking diff, and all the parts, and bolt it in.
You now have an OEM rear locking diff.
The front, just get a Jamar.
You now have a "F-MTC-by-Jamar"...Front-ManualTractionControl-by-Jamar...
ALL 4 tires ARE grabbing.
The system could not work better; and I can vouch for that...:sly:
Ho, and BTW, for me, this total system integration was always in preparation for a true-4WD-TRACK-SYSTEM...TBC...op:
Thanks for the info spaner! Your right I should find a complete rear axle. About your jamar, so it is basically and brake divider? So you can select which wheel has power not both, its sounds like it would be like some dozers that diff steer. Am I right with this?
Also I have been reading your build threads and am very interested in the supercharger, my poor litle truck could sure use a little more go! Do you have to use 91 pump gas? And do you have an idea of what the total cost to do the supercharger was?
Mountain man the Jamar spaner is using acts as the splinter for the front breaks one line in and two lines out one to each side in the front pull it back on side gets full break power to stop spinning push it forward the other side gets full break power to which every tire in the front is off the ground or spinning u can force the power to the other side a lot easier and u can still use the break pedal to get breaking power to both sides if I remember correctly once u hit the pedal the jamar goes back to center if ur holding it and puts breaking force to both sides. Only reason I know is I have one sitting in my mini truck still waiting for me to get time to put it in along with many many other things I have waiting to go on the poor girl.
So what is being said is that this system applies brake on just the tire that is spinning? Which I turns engages the other tire?
So if I'm thinking right you still have only one tire pulling?
Yea its a cutting break that rock crawlers and such use to make tight moves. Which ever front tire is free spinning can be stopped or enough force to make the other front tire spin and help u get out of a bad spot spaner had a youtube video of it in his build ill see if i can find it and send the link to Mountain man i dont think spaner will mind. But im on my cell right now so it might be a little while. Hour or so till i get to something with a bigger screen. I rewatched the video last night while at work
Well after getting to the iPad and looking at spacers post he already had the link on there for the youtube video from the other day so if u haven't watched it I would helps u see what it's doing. Make sure u full screen it and watch the front left tire on the right side when it's in the air it's not spinning. It's not a true diff lock but it's a some what ease way to fix the problem and would work on almost any mini truck once it's installed.
Yup, those are true statements (mostly), but lets be clear here about how the Jamar works, and I'll try to be really simple in the description. (cu'z man, it works soo good :sly
1) at any time, if you stomp on the brake pedal, you have normal brakes, and the Jamar "lever" goes to the neutral position, and you can not stop it; brake system operation normal, at any time, in any condition. Be clear about this.
Two guys with two hands on the lever could not over power the normal brake (boosted) system, with one foot application on the pedal.
So, the Jamar application for traction control, functions only under a "no braking" condition.
This is not a "lock-out" or anything like that. This system is the opposit of complicated, but is simple, and direct, in its application, and also partially, why it works so well
The concept of the system is in fact sooo simple, that it IS very difficult to explain so that it is completely understood. Again, with the static VS dynamic analogy.
Firstly, the concept of "limited slip", and the gearing, that allows any front end so designed to go around corners without dragging tires. (considering the bend in the road) the Outside-long, inside-short, the outside wheel turns more "revolutions" then does the inner wheel. No rotations are lost; GEARS, what goes in, comes out...
Going down the highway @ 100kph, L-50%---R-50%, of the total input driveshaft revolutions.
Around a slight LEFT bend in the highway...L-46%---R-54%; there is NO loss of rotation, drive gears are meshed with teeth and not belts, and there is no slipage...what goes IN, comes OUT.
Now, we jack the left front tire into the air, the right does nothing, as the left gets all of the spin from the drive. In fact, it gets 100% of the imputed drive, from the drive shaft. If you could look into the diff, you would see that the spider-gear, at the end of the right drive shaft (stub-axle) is static, and all the gizmos are now rotating about that fixed point.
Minitruck build credits, to the guy that can tell everyone how many rotations that one left tire, in the air, is rotating compared to the two rear tires in a dynamic diff-locked-UP scenario...:sly:
This is why, in the video, you can see the left tire "locked-up" and in the air, and the right "drive-side" JUMP, right out of the hole...what goes IN, comes out.
Simply put, if the rear system is turning @ one revolutions/second, then the front system is turning @ one revolutions/second...BUT, the Jamar, locks one front wheel (static-not typical), then, that one right tire MUST turn @ TWO revolutions/second; and we "drag" the stopped left front wheel...
But, in this case, it is in the air, so we drag nothing...
Read the previous over a few times and you'll start to get a feel for what it is that I'm trying to describe.
It is SOOOO simple, that it really is hard to describe accurately so that it can be understood how it works in a dynamic situation.
So, lets jump right into it; the high-speed dynamic,
I described a typical bend in the road above. At 100kph but, the truck, its on gravel and starts to slip toward the ditch, on the right, so I apply braking action with the Jamar to the left (push the lever) and in so doing, I slow the rotation of the inside tire. In fact, I slow it to 40% (see the above)...AND what goes-in-must-come-out; and so, the outer Right wheel MUST rotate to 60%; and the truck is FORCED to track around the gravel road corner.
A ha, now we are starting to understand a little more so, lets throw the truck right into the beaverdam; the mud-hole.
So, you've got the standard DD51t, BUT with the OEM rear-diff-lock; yea boy..:sly:
Both rears are spinning, BUT only one front is spinning,
You now understand enough, so that I can say that both rears are spinning @ one revolutions/second, and that the one spinning front tire is in fact spinning @ TWO revolutions/second.
If you had a Jamar (I DO ), you could now push/pull, and FORCE both front tires to spin @ one revolutions/second.
ALL four tires are now grabbing,
As I said, with the Jamar, all four tires will grab...
AND, this in fact, has nothing to do with the "STOPPING" and/or "LOCKING" of the rotation of either/or wheel,
That would be a "static" condition, and is not typical. Its the "dynamic" that IS typical of the operation of the Jamar, and again, the concept of the system is SOOO simple, in its application, that it is very difficult to describe, so that it can be fully understood, and appreciated, for being WAY better than a lunchbox locker, nevermind a lincoln locker...op:
Good write up spaner I dont know how you come up with what you do. I kind of knew how it worked from the get go in my weird working own head. I sometimes see things differently but I think what you said should be understandable to most everyone
Well, that is kind'a my goal whilst ranting on; to be understandable to most everyone.
and I do make posting mistakes. Like the quoting of the limited slip differential, or LSD.
Of course we don't have that...:frustration:
Really, what we have in the front is an "OPEN" or standard differential (with two planet gears though). Limited slip is an old term for the fact that "slippage" allowed the frontend to go around corners on the highway. Learned my trade from guys two generations old...
Today, LSD refers to the system that trys to prevent the very problem that we are discussing here; SLIPPAGE.
but, comes factory OEM, and/or is way too complicated to design/install aftermarket for the application that we have here. Some guys mentioned from above DID come up with a very simple system consisting of 2-friction-blocks, and 2-springs; that pressed against the stub-axle spider gears. This solution, would be considered as an LSD solution to the problem, as it did (although in a VERY limited way) provide resistance to the spinning wheel.
Why didn't it work? Why aren't they around anymore?
Well, in fact it did work, but in a VERY limited way. The friction surface was SO small, and the materials used had such a small coefficient of friction, that you could almost say that it didn't work.
Compare that system to the Jamar, that uses the brake caliper to resist rotation of the spinning wheel.
Night & Day comparison; High-friction resistance pads and a large resistive surface...:sly:
For now, just take a look at the Open-Diff system and check out this link...
To complete this thread, and traction control concept,
I wanted to introduce a new term. An idea that may help the rest of the guys on the side-lines, that have not yet understood how this simple system works to solve all of the traction problems associated with an open-diff on the front, in a 4WD offroad system.
The Jamar, mimics traction to the front wheel that is spinning.
Regardless, if this resistance is comming from the ground, or the brake caliper...the result is the same.
The other front wheel WILL (must) spin. The front-end of the trucK will not only claw its' way out of the hole, but the Jamar, it causes the selected front wheel to turn with grip, at an even GREATER revolution rate than the rest of the drive systems (the diff-locked-rears). Twice as many revolutions, if you so choose do do so via pressure on the Jamar lever. As in my video, the front-end JUMPED out of the hole, as the front-end revolutions were twice that of the rear system...CLIMB&TRACK in the front (double-spin) vs the rear push (single-spin).
Why, are not more offroaders using the Jamar system ?
Why have you never heard of this simple and inexpensive system solution before ?
Because it's an inexpensive solution, so no shop is pushing it, and few understand its workings.
I've had it for years, I've understood it for years, and I've advocated it for years.
Here's the old read...
and NO, I will not update the story...
Oh now spaner come on chapter 2.
Anyways back to the subject. Like in your other post talking about the friction block with spring in it to help the dear diff from spinning out as much I have one of those in my stock rear end do they help yes was it worth the cost I paid to get one of the last ones maybe would I much rather have a full locking in the rear ummm let's see I have a full locker to go in sooooo yes I would.
It did help some while I was using it first month or so you could tell it helped but not as much as I had hoped the more it slipped over time (plowing snow at 20mph) one tire slipping one tire just barely moving for a second or two each time started to get the really hard metal of the plates from super smooth like new rotors to the same texture as the parts in the rear end they touched not super smooth and it would hold a little better.
Once she started to slip it was all over till u stop for a second or two and try again. Helps but not worth it to do to the front end when you can put in a jamar unit and take care of the front period. The rear on the other hand if they where still easy to get and one didn't want a full locker Id say yes do it it will help. Me I'm going full locker once my new bearings seals and the lot get here. Shipping from Japan sucksssssss. That's all I have to add for now thou
Ha, ha...very glad that you are hanging-out around here again jonny, on the day-to-day basics...
Makes me want to hang out here a little more as well...
Where the hell is Fupa? Welder said "HI", Greg...these guys know what they are doing; don't matter what we're talk'en bout...(JAPANESE-MINI-TRUCKS) they know, they could say, they could show...
The K-MAN just made a big change to the site (just-this-minute), and I think that what is still missing...
Is a "nube" or NUBIE status (VIA post-rep, or even just the basic number of posts a member has "in-the-bank" here; in order to both read...and reply, to the information that is given in the areas, that can be easily deemed to be of relevance to their query.
Keven, your guys leave, they stop post'in on your-site, cu'z they get BORD,
Bord, with the new guy, with the single post under his belt, asking...about the Suzuki Carry Vacuum-Line-Routing...Haaa, sheesh, well that is so 5-years ago, BORD...search, hang-out, make-some-friends, that could tell, that could explain...if, they were SO-inclined,
You get a shit-load of hits here now Keven, so make it right, make the site right Boss.
IT (the site) looks different,
BUT, I, me- I'm now an "active-member",
Firstly, get some cool handles in here dude,
I should be a "SHIT-KICKER-member-with massive-balls"
fupa, "member-with ultimate-knowledge"
traxs, "the-man-with-the-money; the shop"
welder, "can't complain, DRIFTER, in the works"
So, over say 1000-post, apropriate posting-handle..."active-member" what -the-fuck-is-that,
and your TOP-MEMBERS...they're gone... da-got-bord....
Site looks good it for sure is different. I tried to see what was up guessing it was while the update was going on would say anything but some line about updating.
I'm with spaner we still need a rep and post counter so people can tell that say spaner is not just some dude who happened to reply if they didn't see his other posts like someone new just saying.
Quit your whining... He'll get it fixed and it will be better than ever. Hell I can even post pics now.
Thanks for tuning me in there Jim...
I actually do really like the new site, and my whining, well, it seems like I tend to start whining after 6-beers..ha, ha, ha...
2-beers- damd good posts,
6-beers- well I just shouldn't be posting by that point...
Tweeks are coming I'm sure, and I think that the point that I was REALLY trying to make at the time is, that it's the guys here that are great, REALLY great guys here...hand claps for all...
However, I do like being able to say SHIT now..he, he...
Any more after 6 beers I'm snoring .
Which Jamar kit did you purchase? Just looking at their website and they have alot of products.
I agree, any hints from spanner would help a ton
agreed.. i was on their online store and didn't find anything that look remotely similar to the pictures... ;(
There are only really TWO companies that make/support these, and the bulk of the industry is out of California; "Sand-Rails"
CNC vs Jamar,
You could order/support out of many companies but, the above should get you started.
Separate names with a comma.