[SOLVED] '94 Hijet S110P Won't Start

With the follower that moves with the blue screw adjusted to the index mark: Take the feed from the air cleaner off the inlet to the carb. You will now be able to see inside the carb. Adjust the white screw until the choke blade inside has about 3/16 to 1/4 inch gap under it. You check it by holding a drill bit by the cutting part and inserting the round end under the choke blade. If it moves you are too tight. This should all be done when the carb is at 72F/22C.

 

Thanks once again for the help.

So the index mark is just moving that round portion of the plate until it hits the metal plate where the index mark is? I was anticipating lining up 2 markers or something like that where the markers could move past each other or line up (if that makes any sense).

If I have it right, the blue screw is lined up at the index mark and I have adjusted the carb to around 5/16" (I had that on hand and not a 1/4"). It didn't start with that, so I adjusted it slightly more closed since it was 60 degrees and not 72, but still no dice.

I also picked up a new battery. This solved the slow/dying cranking, but it wasn't it either. Now it is actually cranking super fast and I can see and feel the engine/truck shaking. Do I have something tuned up too high? Are there adjustments I need to make with the other screws on the carb to get it to start, or am I looking at something else?

I am still very confused about the vacuum lines, and why the "brown" line is not where it should be in the diagram (along with several others). Perhaps someone at some point figured out an alternative method it could work, but it seems it would be ideal to have it done right. I have figured out a way to reconnect everything where it should be except for where that brown line ultimately goes. It appears it should go under the "throttle position" on the diagram, but it is very congested back there and I can't locate anywhere it would connect.

 

Try some starting fluid. And see if it fires up and tries to start. If not it is most likely related to the spark.

 

Ok will try that tomorrow. Can I spray that straight in the carb or do I need to go through the air filter? Air filter housing seems to be a PITA to take off on this model for some reason as the top of the cover is tight against the frame of the truck.

 

Directly into the carburetor throat.

 

On mine, the plate that the index mark is on (pink) and the roller (light blue) are touching and the roller moves upward past the index mark against the edge of the plate when the engine warms up until finally it separates from the plate at the top when the engine has warmed up, and then there is a gap...
I notice in your picture, the roller is not touching the index mark plate. I'm assuming the engine is cold at this point because 1) you can't start it and 2) the choke should be closed with the roller at the index mark. Whether this is important or not, I don't know, just noticed a difference.

 

Oops, the plate actually moves downward in relation to the roller, not the other way around... They actually put a roller on there so I'm thinking it is supposed to be running against the plate?

 

So the pink is pointing to the green part behind the plate which moves up and down, and the light blue is pointing to the index mark. But if you are talking about the plate with the index marker and the round part to the left of it, from what I can tell that just moves in towards the line or out and away from it.

 

Just tried the starting fluid and it was a no go. Didn't make a difference in all in it trying to start and never came close to starting.

I took the hose connecting the air filter to the carb completely off and opened the choke the whole way. Sprayed starter fluid in for a second or so and tried. Then sprayed about 2-3 seconds more worth and closed the choke to the roughly 5/16th - 1/4th mark and still no go.

I'm guessing I start with the spark plugs next? I think I saw a video on testing those will try to pull it up.

 

Did it cough, backfire or anything? If it won’t even act like it wants to start then the most likely culprit is spark.

I’d start by checking if there a spark to the frame, from the high tension lead from the coil to the distributor, disconnect it at the distributor, and with some insulated pliers hold the metal end about half an inch from the frame, and crank the truck. You should get a blue white spark.

If not check to see if the coil is getting power when the key is on, if it is getting voltage, check to see if it still gets voltage when it is in crank/start mode.

If it is getting voltage to the positive terminal, jumper from a ground to the negative terminal, while holding the high tension lead about half an inch from the frame, you should get a spark every time you close the circuit from the negative coil terminal to the frame. If you don’t get a good white hot spark, the coil is bad.

If the coil is good, the engine control module, or sensor in the distributor are bad. And unfortunately I’m not quite sure how to check them.

If the coil is firing as the engine cranks, then everything leading to the distributor is ok, and you have spark as far as the distributor. So check ignition timing, distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs and plug wires.

 

As to the choke that Roadster pointed out: The plate is driven by the wax motor in the water jacket on the carb. Wax has a high thermal expansion rate so, as the engine cools it contracts, and as it heats it expands. So the colder the temperature the more the wax contracts, moving that plate, it is a cam, clock wise, and pushes the roller further out increasing the idle speed, the cam connects to the adjuster for the choke plate position adjustment. So as the engine and water gets warmer, the choke progressively disengages and goes to full open.

 

You'll have to forgive my ignorance once again. I believe I have located the distributor cap, but tough to tell because it appears there is an EPDM sleeve covering it and held on with zip ties. Is this normal? Either way, is there a way to do the first test with a voltmeter without removing it or should I not worry about taking it off?

 

Everybody was a newby at some point. Some of us went through the learning curve at 16, and we were certain that our dads wren’t quite smart enough to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. My Buddies dad, now he was smart and knew all about cars. I took he first engine I rebuilt in and about of the car, five or six times before he told me I should ask my Dad for help and advice, because he really was pretty smart.

Ok, on to the boot, yes it comes off, just clip the wire ties, and replace them with new ones. In your photo. The single wire coming out of the coil is the one you want to hold next the frame and crank the truck, to see if you have spark. I’d plan on buying a set of new plug wires, and you could use the coil lead from teh new set to do teh test without disturbing the boot. But eventually it has to come off.

You could start with the meter, and check to see if you have power to the coil. If you don’t there is a white ceramic resistor near the coil, (at least my S110P has one), and if it is bad you wont get power to the coil. So, check before the resistor first, to see if you have 12-volts there, and then on the outlet side to see how many volts you have there. Then at the coil for the same voltage you had after the resistor.

 

UPDATE: Nevermind, after doing some research this spark plug does not look normal. Looks burnt past the first thread. Not sure what this means for my problem but I'm guessing it will need replaced.

Well I appreciate all the help I'd be pretty screwed without it.

The line to the distributor cap seemed to test fine. There was definitely a little bit of orange to the spark, but it seemed healthy enough.

I got the first spark plug out and it is an E3.31 my mechanic must have put in and I'm pretty sure that's not the recommended type. Could that be the cause of my issue? It definitely started stalling more often after I got it back from him, but it seemed to work better after I turned the idle back up which he adjusted down. It tested fine at 6500 ohms.

 

The one on top I hadn't cleaned off yet

 

Couple more things...

When removing the 2nd (middle) spark plug, I found this rubber piece (pictures attached) stuck in my socket. It's a new socket set, so I'm pretty sure it came from the area where the spark plug was. Odd but seems it could have been causing an issue.

I also tested the ignition coil for the heck of it. The resistance between both sides was 26 ohms, almost double the limit in the manual, and between the two prongs on the one side was 8-10 ohms. This means I need a new coil, right?

 

I think the rubber thing is a spark plug retainer that lives in your spark plug socket so you can put the plug in it and hold it in place to get teh spark plug socket.

You have the stock coil, and it should be within the stock specs. So, it should be replaced.

 

Those are E3 expensive multi-electrode plugs; You could try NGK BKR6E-11 plugs. These were recommended to me by the truck importer as a replacement for the original BPR5EK-B NGK plugs not available in N.A. 3 of them were under $12 (Can) readily available at the local parts shop. They work well, and are the right reach and heat range in my engine. I found the gap best for me at .032

That looks like the rubber insert in a spark plug socket, or it could be the rubber cap on the end of the spark plug cap where it goes onto the spark plug. I doubt if that is your problem - if it is the rubber cap on the spark plug cap, it is there to seal water etc. off the spark plug insulator. Even if that plug was wet on the insulator, the engine would fire and run rough on the other two cylinders.

If there is no spark at any of the plugs and the voltages to the coil as described by Jigs checked out, it seems there may be a lack of continuity in the high tension wire between the distributor and the coil, or the coil itself... Those spark plug and coil wires could be very old and compromised under load. If they have not been replaced recently, the distributor cap and the rotor should be replaced as well. For the time being, scrape lightly the cap contacts and the rotor edge; oxidation can build up on the cap aluminium contacts and it is pretty much non-conductive.

As your truck is the same vintage as Jigs, ensure you have followed his instructions regarding the start circuit resistor, because it won't fire without it being intact, and they do fail. Mine does not seem to have one, but it is four years newer and the coil resistance is usually different on non-resistor circuits. Your manual may be listing resistance for a non - resistor coil?

 

Ok so I just tested and each of the spark plugs and each of the plug wires generated a spark. The issue does not appear to be there, and that would also rule out the coil, distributor cap, and rotor as major culprits also right?

As for the rubber insert, it could have very well been in the socket then. Going back and looking that socket is different looking from the rest of the set- there were a couple different pieces which weren't what they should have been in this set so I wouldn't be surprised if a spark plug socket got thrown in.

There are 11.9 volts going into the coil and 11.86 coming out. The coil seems to at least not be the main problem, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to replace it if it's out of spec. Is my only option here one of the $150-200 ones I see online?

I assumed if I was getting a spark from the coil I didn't need to test much else there which is why I didn't test the resistor. This connector taped to the cord going into the coil is the only thing I can see that might be it - is this what I'm looking for? If so, how do I test before it?

Given that I'm getting a spark at all of the plugs - where do I look next? I see ignition timing as something I should look a it, but it seems I need a special tool for that?

I should note I'm still getting the feeling I may have messed something up trying to get it to start over the winter considering it was starting up beforehand. Is there any scenario where it wouldn't start with starter fluid even if the spark is proper?

 

Here is a picture of my hose layout you can check against yours - the white ty-wraps just mark the ones I have replaced so far.

The resistor in is there to reduce the current to the coil when the ignition key is in the "run" position. When you engage the starter, the resistor is bypassed to allow full voltage to the primary windings of the coil to facilitate a stronger spark to fire the engine up. When you release the starter to "run", the resistor adds to the coil internal resistance and reduces the current through the coil and the "ignitor" (electronic ignition module). If I recall, external resistor coils have a 1.5 ohm primary and internal resistor coils are 3 ohms. I suspect a regular coil would work ok if the primary resistance was correct. The danger would be perhaps drawing too much current through the ignition module if the resistance was wrong... Some racing coils can be less than 1 ohm...so high current flow. A regular coil would not be "plug and play" like a stock one. I'm not convinced your coil is the problem, but that's just a wild guess on my part.

 

Thanks for the picture for comparison Roadster. I am truly confused why my vacuum hose configuration doesn't match that and almost every other truck I have seen. Mine is a bit different as it has a splitter connection that yours doesn't, but I have found a picture from a different truck that shows that splitter connected to the "brown" line (picture attached). My "brown" line however goes in the direction oriented 90 degrees counter clockwise to every connection I have seen. There are then various hoses connected in different places up that direction (I'm assuming because the hose leading from the brown connector takes the place where one of the other hoses should connect). I also believe I have identified where that brown hose should connect to, although it appears to be quite hidden. If it is determined the spark is not the issue reconfiguring the lines is the first thing I'm going to try, and I've already ordered new lines online.

EDIT: Actually upon second glance, I think yours might have that splitter, but it just can't be seen in the picture.

 

Because mine (and perhaps some others) doesn't have the dump feature, diff. lock or low range which all use pneumatic lines for activation etc. it may be yours is plumbed differently, and even the diagrams may not reflect all options... Trying to figure out what each line does would certainly help to decide connection points, but that is a daunting task! I've never seen or heard of any vehicle with as complex a pneumatic system as this...

Just a thought; It could be the spark you saw at the plugs in free air isn't strong enough when in the engine under compression. Also, now that you've pulled the gas line off the carb inlet does cranking the engine over produce gas into a container?

 

I actually have not pulled the gas line off the carb yet. To be honest I haven't even identified which line that is yet. Is that something I should have done by now?

 

Then fuel line that goes from the fuel pump to the carb is the one you can remove and then crank... If you still have the carb off, you've removed that line. I suspect it's the large nipple at the bottom right of the carb in your picture. On my picture, the inlet fuel line to the pump is the one with the yellow band at the top centre of the picture, and the outlet is directly below it. It is probably easier to remove where it goes into the carb? The pump on these is a mechanical pump driven off a lobe on the camshaft.

 

Oh sorry I wasn't clear...that's someone else's picture. I was searching the forum for other pictures people had posted to try to get an idea of the vacuum hose configuration. That was one where I was able to see the splitter I have on my setup which is why I used it as an example.

But if that is a test that can help diagnose the problem I can find and disconnect the line and give it a shot.

 

OK... If there is a steady stream of gas coming out of the hose feeding the carb from the fuel pump, then the fuel pump is working, the filter is clear, the fuel line from the tank isn't blocked and we can eliminate all that from the scenario.

 

I do have that splitter on the right front side of the carb. It seems to be connected like the carb picture. That green electrical connector... one of those wire pairs goes to a solenoid that cuts off the fuel to stop run-on when the engine is switched off, I think. Might be good to ensure the connector is fully engaged and clean. If the solenoid is normally activated when the engine is running and for some reason isn't, that would stop fuel from getting to the carb. However, you did spray ether into the carb and it didn't fire, and it should have at least coughed or sputtered?

I found a couple of the small hoses around the carb had cracks on the end at the nipple. It wasn't causing an issue yet, however I am sure an air leak could be a problem down the road. When you get your new vacuum line and replace some of these, you might find a leaky one...

 

Get a fuel pressure/vacuum gauge, and check the discharge pressure from the fuel pump. If it is over 2.5 psi, it can push past the needle valve hooked to the float and flood the carburetor. Mine was doing that because the return line from the pump to the tank was seeing back pressure at the tank, because the charcoal canister was clogged. My solution was to install an electric pump, filter and regulator back at the tank.

You may have spark at the plug, but not hot enough to actually ignite the compressed fuel-air charge.

Timing takes a timing light, you can get them off eBay, Amazon, or probably locally at harbor freight, or any autoparts house. I think it is supposed to be 7-degrees at 950-rpm.

You can get timing close enough to get the engine running, by setting timing statically. Rotate the engine until the timing mark is lined up, and then loosen and rotate the distributor, so the trigger on distributor is lined up with the the bump out of the trigger wheel in the distributor. If it is close to lined up, it is probably right, and don’t loosen the distributor and try to adjust it.

Any coil with the correct internal coil resistor will work, it the resistor is right.

 

The reddish elecrical connector to the north of the light purple piece in your picture...is that connected to something? I just noticed mine is just hanging out there not connected to anything.

Going out to pick up some new spark plugs and also get a pressure/vacuum gauge we'll see what happens there.