I've recently picked up a Suzuki Carry, I believe it's a '93 based on the seatbelt tags. It's a 4x4 with locking rear diff, 5 speed plus EL tranny. The truck was "let go" by the previous owner(s) and needed a little work when I got it. The air cleaner was out and the two vacuum lines that plug onto the bottom of the airbox were off. I put that all back together and it ran a lot better, but still had no power right off idle, when it would idle at all. So I pulled the carb off and opened it up, and found a fair amount of trash in the bowl and in the smaller jet. (power jet according to the drawings I've seen) I cleaned everything out and put it back together, replacing two vacuum lines that were questionable. I followed the instructions posted in an older thread here on tuning the carb and got it where it's running perfect once warmed up, but I'm still having some issues that I hope someone can help me with. I'm not a car/truck mechanic by any means, small engines are my thing. (Motorcycles and ATVs) This carb and vacuum setup isn't like anything I've working on so far. Symptoms: When started hot or cold, the engine immediately races to half throttle or more and holds there for 3-4 seconds, then settles to an idle. When cold, the engine idles a little faster than when warm, but smoothly as expected. Once the engine starts to heat up and the choke starts to turn off, then idle speed will drop until the engine stumbles and will race back up to half throttle or so, then come back to a low (too low) idle, and repeat this process a few times until it eventually stumbles and dies. If kept running, once the engine is completely warmed up and at operating temperature, the engine idles great and will idle at one smooth speed all day. What I'd like to do, is figure out why the engine races so fast for a few seconds when started hot or cold. Also, get the engine to idle smoothly during the transition from cold choked state to full warmed up and off choke. My next step is to double check the vacuum line routing one hose at a time, I didn't do that today just because I'm fed up working on the carb under the cab of the truck, it's tight in there! lol I sure wish Suzuki had designed these so the cab would flip up... Anyway, here's what my carb looks like: http://www.chads-minitruck-parts.com/Suzuki Carry Carb.JPG I've been following this thread so far: http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?12911-Desperately-need-tuning-help! It seems they when to alot of trouble to figure out the vacuum lines there. I intend to follow the picture in this post to check mine tomorrow. Could someone explain what each of those lines should go to? the only one I've sure of is "Dist", I'm guessing that one should run to the actuator on the distributor that advances the timing right? What are the others, can, choke, f/pr? Also where is the EGR located? Any help will be greatly appreciated! I'm afraid I've only confused myself trying to figure out the vacuum lines thus far, and feel there's a chance I may have got them swapped around when putting the carb back on!
This is basically like a first gen ECU. If everything is in place and working properly, it will run so good you can't believe it. It's like a dance show, with 85 performers. Any little "nothing" out of place, and it will run like a POS. Just like an ECU..."limp mode". That's what you're in now. Mechanical "limp mode". Forget about trying to find the one thing that is wrong with it. After 20 years of neglected use, there is only one way to do this properly. Start at the beginning and work towards the end. Test every actuator, test every vacuum line. You're on the right thread, and all the information you need is there. Follow the link posted there for choke system adjustment. Start with the carb. It should have up to 4 vacuum actuators and is either a 2+3 configuration, or a 3+2 configuration. Do all of the actuators hold vacuum? The "can" is behind the driver's wheel well, and the vacuum line runs through the back wall. The "ERG" is beside the distributor. The "choke" is on the carb. The "f/pr" is an original japanese manual reference. Runs to the "throttle-up" actuator. The "VSV" controler is also an original japanese manual reference. It controls the high idle for both alt load and A/C load on the engine idle RPM. A no A/C configuration will have a single port VSV controler. Keep reading and work one step at a time. Post "actual" pictures to ask you're questions, and ask direct questions. "My truck runs funny" will not get an answer from anybody. If they don't understand the question, they can't answer it. Good luck and, My back still hurts from working in "the hell hole"...
Spaner, I was hoping you'd chime in! Thanks for the help! That info above is great, and almost enough for me to work out the vacuum stuff and check all that. One more question though, the actuators on the carb... Is it correct to assume the following? #1 is the actuator to raise the idle for lights, fan, etc. (ACC) I know for sure this works as intended. #2 would be the "choke pull off" and should be connected to the port designated choke in the other thread? (Mine has a little "T" on the line going to this one) #3 is the "idle up" or "throttle up" controller and should run to the "F/pr" port? My carb is a "2+3" as designated in your post here (top of the picture) - http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?12911-Desperately-need-tuning-help!&p=78914#post78914 I only have those 3 actuators on the carb, plus one more on the distributor. I have no A/C. I'm headed out to see if I can sort anything out now! If there's nothing obvious I'll have to start at the beginning and work my way through, hopefully to a great running truck at the end... haha Thanks again for the help! I'm trying to figure this stuff out on my own, just need a few pointers.
Well that was fun... I followed all the vacuum lines, and they are all ran correctly as far as I can tell. I tested each actuator with a long line and pulling a vacuum by mouth, they all work and hold fine. One thing I did find is that the "delay" between the "F" port and idle up actuator is all but stopped up. I can't pull a vacuum through it with my mouth. With it connected properly on the carb, when I start the engine the actuator slowly creeps down. That's what's holding the throttle open so much when it's first started. Also, if the engine slows too much and starts to die, the actuator slooowly creeps up and doesn't have time to throttle up before the engine stumbles. Just as a test, I put a straight line from the "F" port to the actuator with no delay in it. The engine cranks up and idles just fine, and the actuator can work fast enough to keep the engine running now. I'm not sure how much the "delay" is supposed to slow things down, but it seems mine isn't working as intended. Can I get that delay from any auto parts store, or will I need to look for a specific one? If nothing else, I've got a better understanding now of how things are supposed to work, and a better chance and getting it dialed in. At the very least, it's running MUCH better than when I started and very close to perfect.
All, half, or none... Most guys fall into the three above categories for understanding and ability. I can tell that you have indeed worked on a few ATVs. Two posts up, your assumptions are ALL correct. Question/statement, you read like you have the 4 port temp/sense vacuum controler...for choke and EGR...like "The Pou"...(the "T"; slight choke pull-off delay during start-up, even though warm)...plumb it as such, as per previous referenced thread, and "The Pou" configuration... That delay unit on the "F" port, for the "throttle-up"...toss it...The ideal behind the system, is to alleviate you of the necessity to apply 3/4 throttle application prior to initial start-up...NOT to recover the idle condition from a badly adjusted system...I have eliminated mine; just a secondary "idle perch" now (actuation "pusher" VS "puller") but, no need for you to do so, just toss the restrictor...Adjustment #3 CCW 1 and 3/4 turn and #1 CW 3/4 turn... That should fix you up. Pretty easy to explain when you "say what you mean...and mean what you say"... Once you get that fixed-up, I can tell you what vacuum lines to start eliminating...then you'll have to adjust the whole works again...
You are correct, the temp sense controller gadget (not sure what it's actually called... lol) is indeed a 4-port one. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the lines there, as I haven't removed any of those yet. I know part of the choke actuator is ran through it. I'll double check those lines after re-reading the other thread next. I'm not positive I fully understand how to adjust the idle speed using the fast-idle screw, and the other screw on the "front" side of the carb (as mounted in the truck). I believe the theory is that the "thermo wax" which works the choke, also uses this fast idle screw to raise the idle speed until the engine warms up, then the other screw on the front side of the carb sets the base idle once the engine is warm and the choke is off. I've adjusted accordingly, and the little truck is running great right now, near perfect in fact. My only issue right now is that the throttle tends to "hang", not mechanically, the RPMs seem to stay high for a second or two when the gas pedal is released. When shifting through the gears the engine revs a little between gears. Any idea what might be causing that? I know it's not the throttle up actuator on the F port, I've watched it and as long as the engine is running, it's staying retracted, or off, whatever you'd call it when it's not advancing the throttle. I'm still having fun trying to solve the puzzle as to how everything works together. When I have time I'll go out and actually check the rest of the lines to make sure they're routed properly, and check the choke to see if it's adjusted properly. I don't want to get the carb "close enough" and leave it at that. It's a challenge now, and I want to beat it! Thanks again for the help here! You've already helped me understand how this carb is supposed to work, which is a HUGE step forward. ...And yes, I've worked on my share of ATVs, it's a hobby I guess. I tend to stay away from automobiles though, they get a lot more complicated and take all the fun out!
aaah, you pretty much got the theory now but, Static VS Dynamic reactionary condition, The "front side of the carb IS the STATIC idle condition setting... The throttle "hang" is reduced by CCW #3 adjustment, for a dynamic condition on the back-side of the carb...eg, revving the engine... I know, it's a retarded system. It's just easier to plug the "F" port, and adjust the #3 adjustment as a secondary throttle perch, just like #1...front and back...It's related to the vacuum condition, PWR required, no vacuum, PUSHES...no pwr required, retracts..."hang" connection is the #3 adjustment... The only dynamic advantage to the "F" port system, is a "back-fire" reduction during MAX PWR - to throttle-off condition....AKA, racing... It will delay the throttle down condition to alleviate this condition, just as you have described... The choke system, is on it's own. The #5 setting is independent of the rest, as this is a "mechanical slider" system, and no other adjustment will affect it while the choke system is engaged. It is the choke-off transition condition that you are describing. You need to reduce the "hang" and increase the idle. #3 CCW, #1 CW.... I know that I can give my 09 focus a "performance flash", but that's just boring...
Thanks again! I truly appreciate the excellent help I'm getting here. So I think that last bit really helped it "click", it's coming together now. I'll play with it a little tomorrow and see how much better I can dial it in. I'll update then, maybe even post a quick video of how it runs in the end.
Made some pretty good progress this morning. I read your last post a few times and once I started adjusting things, it clicked. I've got a pretty good idea of how the idle screws work now. (#3 and #1) I adjusted them as you instructed, and was able to dial it in rather nicely! No more engine racing when starting, no more stumbling and racing back and forth while transitioning from choke on to choke off, and much less "hang" than before when throttling down. It may not be spot on perfect, but I think it's about as close and I'll ever be able to get it. I'm happy with it. As promised, here's a quick video clip of it running, this was just after coming off the choke, when it would barely stay running before. [video=youtube;DIiqCFi3A2Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIiqCFi3A2Q[/video] Also a picture just 'cause I'm proud of it now that it's all fixed up and ready for some fun.
Lubricating the throttle cable and linkage at gas peddle and carb helps lag time and makes shifting easier too.
