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Air Con on working on Carry not working.

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by Dave, May 24, 2010.

  1. Dave

    Dave New Member

    Hi, Ive got a 95 Suzuki Carry which hasnt been driven for a couple of months and Ive started using it again but the clutch on the air con compressor wont engage. The light on the air con button doesnt come on when pressed so Im hoping is there a fuse for it that may have blown or something else that is causing this problem. Ive searched for a fuse but havent been able to find it anywhere. Any ideas?. Thanks.
     
  2. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    most air conditioners have a pressure switch which will stop the compressor from running if there is insufficient coolant in the system..check if you have freon
     
  3. o8k

    o8k Member

    I accidentally unplugged my AC switch once while changing out the radio. But I like where fupabox was going with this better....
     
  4. erixun

    erixun Member

    I am in the exact same boat! Same symptoms exactly..except mine is a 93, I am going to take it to a local airconditioning shop in a couple of weeks when the cash flow allows, I need to convert the system anyway I think, if you don't have yours fixed by then I will let you know what I found....
     
  5. Dave

    Dave New Member

    I guess Ill take it to a dealer to get regassed....

    I plan on exporting this one back to New Zealand in the next couple of weeks so Ill take it to a dealer before then to get regassed and hopefully this will solve the problem.
    Will let you know the results.
     
  6. Dave

    Dave New Member

    I stopped by the Suzuki Dealership today and spoke to the mechanic.
    He's very confident that as the light on the air con button is not turning on the problem will be something electrical, most likely the wires that run to the relay and condenser under the tray. He said because they are pretty exposed and get wet the wires/connections start to corrode and cause trouble. They were too busy to work on it so Ill have a go myself later today.
     
  7. erixun

    erixun Member

    So the light should turn on inside the switch on the dash even if the compressor- A/C isn't turning on? :sly:mmmmmmm.....I am starting to think mine isnt a freon level thing that I first suspected. I think I see an electical tester in my future.

    Thanks for the update..... If you find the exact location of said wires/relays could you possibly snap a picture or two, or a good description to help find them on my truck? I will be looking at mine this weekend as summer is just around the corner and with it comes the 100 degree heat! And I want to be cool. :cool:
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  8. Dave

    Dave New Member

    Ive checked the wiring and....

    Ive checked the wiring and although the wiring was a bit corroded I am now sure its lack of freon.
    Under the tray on the right side of the truck is the condenser with a wiring loom that runs to the condenser fan, a relay and 20amp fuse and the sensor for the freon which is located about 8 inches away from the condenser.
    One of the wires which went into the relay was badly corroded so I repaired that but still didnt make a difference.
    I then disconnected the plug to the sensor and checked the sensor for continuity with a meter and there wasnt any continuity which I am guessing there should be if there is enough freon.
    So if you havent got a meter the easiest way to check is to disconnect the plug to the sensor and cut a short piece of wire and bridge the 2 contacts in the plug. I did this and started the truck and the air con compressor clutch now engages and the light for the air con comes on as well. I will go get it regassed and should be fine.
    Thanks for you correct advice earlier in this thread. I wonder if the Japanese mechanic saw me and hoped to make a bit of money out of me by saying that it could be a time consuming electrical problem although I disconnected the sensor on my suzuki swift and the Air con light still comes on but the compressor clutch doesnt engage so maybe what he was saying was true for some Suzuki's but not the carry.
     
  9. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    unfortunately there are many mechanics out there that will show how your compressor doesn't turn on when you push the a/c button, so you need a new one.....freon being a gas evaporates over time and needs to be topped up occasionally..the switch light I guess is different depending on manufacturer..some pushing the switch turns the light on, others the light is an indication of the system being turned on...
     
  10. Dave

    Dave New Member

    Just had it gassed..

    Just had 3 canisters of freon put into it and it seems to be going well. Hope its not leaking but time will tell I guess...
     
  11. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    If anyone wants to convert from R12 to R134, it is an easy process with any of the kits from auto parts stores or wally world. I've converted somewhere near 8 vehicles and had great results.
    Just food for thought.:)
     
  12. project_x

    project_x Member

    Did you do it with your Carry?
     
  13. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    No, it is already R134. Well now that I think about it; I am pretty sure it is already R134, but have not had the need to service it yet.
     
  14. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    You guys have air conditioning!.... Wow that's like bringing a TV and a microwave while camping. Really roughing it!
     
  15. erixun

    erixun Member

    That is what I found, sort of, I tested all my wiring and my connections and all seemed to be complete and in good shape, so I am sure I am in the same boat as the freon thing. Did you convert yours from 12 to 134? or top it off with 12? or mixed and matched? I am thinking about buying one of those kits to convert mine, just need to take it somewhere to catch the 12 in it. Well I am guessing it has 12 in it, never did find any stickers, numbers or any other markings to indicate otherwise.
     
  16. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    Goldberg Brothers:

    The Goldberg Brothers - The Inventors of the Automobile Air Conditioner
    Here's a little factoid for automotive buffs or just to dazzle your friends.
    The four Goldberg Brothers

    The four Goldberg brothers, Lowell, Norman, Hiram, and Max, invented and developed the first automobile air-conditioner. On July 17, 1946, the temperature in Detroit was 97 degrees.

    The four brothers walked into old man Henry Ford's office and sweet-talked his secretary into telling him that four gentlemen were there with the most exciting innovation in the auto industry since the electric starter.

    Henry was curious and invited them into his office. They refused and instead asked that he come out to the parking lot to their car.

    They persuaded him to get into the car, which was about 130 degrees, turned on the air conditioner, and cooled the car off immediately.

    The old man got very excited and invited them back to the office, where he offered them $3 million for the patent.

    The brothers refused, saying they would settle for $2 million, but they wanted the recognition by having a label, 'The Goldberg Air Conditioner,'on the dashboard of each car in which it was installed.


    Now old man Ford was more than just a little anti-Semitic, and there was no way he was going to put the Goldberg's name on two million Fords.

    They haggled back and forth for about two hours and finally agreed on $4 million and that just their first names would be shown. And so to this day, all Ford air conditioners show -- Lo, Norm, Hi, and Max -- on the controls.

    I can hear your groans from here.
     
    Justafarmer likes this.
  17. fupabox

    fupabox Well-Known Member

    Wheres the throw tomato icon..:)......I laughed I cried ,I made Jullienne potatoes.....

    Regarding the freon recharge...I have used the "duracool " kits many times over the years and have had no problems with them..compatible with all past and present coolants without any seal changes etc.
     
  18. erixun

    erixun Member

    So yesterday I started checking all my stuff again, I checked the refridgerant level, wires etc. I started the truck and turned on my A/C and the light turned on and it blew some cool air, but not cold and it did not last, though my light stayed on this time! I think my level is low, and I had issues with some connections, I never did find any obvious "bad" ones, all looked ok with minor oxidation, dust, etc. (Like everyother electronic connection in my truck:D) Atleast I got everything working, so I assume low freon is my problem.

    I think I am going to convert mine to r134a, I read somewhere that they started using r134 in 1996 so I assume mine has r12. I bought a retro fit/charging kit yesterday from wally world for $36 and if I get time today I going to convert it. I hope the new fittings will work with the 1993 Japanese ones, because you just screw on the new ones... I will post any updates.
     
  19. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah you are prob R12. There's really nothing wrong with converting it to 134 by just changing out the adapters and pumping it in. I've had luck doing this. The proper way is to flush the system, replace all the seals and replace with compatable oil. I at least would flush and replace the oil. If the seals go bad its not a big deal but if components fail due to the oil type it could be costly. FWIW...

    -Greg
     
  20. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    erixum,

    If the kit did not come with it, pick up a can of leak detector. It is usually combined with the oil or even the refrigerant. The leak detector is a dye that will show up if and where you have a leak, after running the system for a while.;)
     
  21. o8k

    o8k Member

    food for thought... a snipit from an article on conversions....

    "Be extremely cautious about converting your old R-12 system to R-134a. The R-134a conversion kits sold at Auto Parts stores and even WalMart, are called "Black Death Kits" by some AC repairmen. Frequently, the new R-134a refrigerant will not circulate the R-12 oil and you will burn up your compressor. The R-12 mineral oil has chlorine contaminants that will destroy the R-134a PAG or POE special oil. The only way to reliably convert from R-12 to R-134a is to remove the compressor and flush out all the old oil with the new type of oil; then replace the old Receiver-Dryer or Accumulator with a new one; then flush out all the lines, the evaporator, and the condensor with special cleaner then vacuum to a steady vacuum; and finally charge with 70-80%, (by weight) of the original R-12 weight, with R-134a; and expect poorer cooling ability. It is much easier to keep the old R-12 system running with R-12 that is readily available via ebay. You must have a license to buy and sell R-12.
    Note that the above warning is controversial. Some repairmen claim to have converted hundreds of vehicles from R-12 to R134a without any problems or issues or failures after conversion."
    --excerpt from http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-Your-Car's-Air-Conditioner
     
  22. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    ...


    Any progress?
    I've started to look into mine as it stoped working this season. Last year it worked fine.
    I checked the gas pressure on both sides hi/lo and it only had a very small amount before it leaked to empty. My dash light also did not come on.
    Brought it to the shop and had a vacume test on it, which looked very good.
    The tag on the pump will read type of coolant, mine is R12.
    We started to fill the system with the recomended amount (413manual suplement); and could not get the clutch to engage or the switch light to come on.
    Tested the clutch circut, which was dead, so thinking that this was a service procedure, we jumped power over to the line and finished recharging the system. At some point during this, the switch light came on.
    The system now blows slightly cool air and the switch light will come on with the switch selection, but the clutch will not engage independantlly and the rear cooling fan does not engage.
    I have checked ALL fuses under the steering wheel, and have had a cursory look around the electrical system. I have not located a secondary fuse or link and all wires look OK.
    I do have the supplement and it also shows that the system has a separate control unit connected to the ecm.
    With no other info, I'm going to start tearing into it at the front air duct sensor. I had the dash apart at one point and it did look corroded.
    The rear control relays after that and then the control board, which does have a testing procedure. If all elce fails, I guess I could just hot wire the system..


    ...
     
  23. Little Foot

    Little Foot Member

    I'm still just amazed that you have air on a 42 hp engine!!!
     
  24. erixun

    erixun Member

    So I purchased the kit, had a local "shop" suck some R12 out, I say some, because when I installed the fittings (included in the kit) and tried to "refill" it, only about 3/4 of one can would fit without raising my pressure to an all time high. My compressor will turn on, but not stay on. So to err on the side of caution I have not ran my A/C... I will wait for some cash and take it to a reputable A/C shop and pay more now to fix my screw up....(by not taking it there in the first place)... or figure out what is going on. I think they will have to totally drain, clean my system, I think it has a mix... but don't know for sure. Good news is I have verified all my electrical connections, and the system does not leak!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  25. spaner

    spaner Well-Known Member

    ...


    FIXED IT.:cool:

    I finally did find the secondary 20amp fuse under the rear access panel, mounted on the cross rail. I would have identified it the first time around if whoever had serviced it last had replaced the SPARE fuse into the holder on the side of the fuse housing. As it was, it just looked like any other kwick connect.

    Everything was well corroded so when I was twisting and pulling on the fuse, the feeded llines on the main control relay fell out. They where covered in neon blue corrosion and had no contact with the relay at all.

    20 minutes of soldering and a good helping of grease...

    COLD AIR--again:D

    ...
     

    Attached Files:

  26. zardoz

    zardoz Member

    Air conditioner? Whats that? lol... I use the old fashioned 2/80 system 2 windows rolled down and a minimum of 80 km's/hour ;) Doesn't help when stuck in traffic.. or behind a hay wagon tho ...

    z
     
  27. Don-in-Japan

    Don-in-Japan Member

    As far as the retrofits go, I have several hundred under my belt, and can answer some questions.

    If the A/C system is in decent shape to begin with, a retrofit will be no issues.

    Ideally, you should remove each component, and drain the mineral oil from them.. and replace it with the correct amount of PAG oil. But, this is not always a viable solution. Several companies make oils which claim to be compatible with both types. Longevity is an issue here though.. not just "right now".

    The receiver/drier (similar to accumulator in function..just not position) should be replaced with an R-134 unit. The dissecant apparently is formulated differently for each gas/oil

    The "black death" issue stems from folks having a completely worn out R-12 system, and thinking a retrofit will somehow magically give them something to work with. Most mechanics worth their salt can take a look, and know a losing battle from the beginning.

    Before introducing any type of refridgerant into ANY cooling system, the air and moisture must be purged, and the A/C system must be in a vacuum. Nothing says faulty A/C system more than a huge amount of air taking up space inside.

    If there is an R-12/R-134a mix or "blend".. legally speaking, it is against EPA regs to use an R-134a machine to recover it. A dedicated machine and reclaim tank needs to be used for each particular blend. (Really not an issue for the vehicle owner.. more for the shop ownership.. just thought I would throw it out there.)

    Keep in mind most leaks occur inside the evaporator box under the dashboard. Where the expansion valve creates the restriction seems like the most common place in most cars. Sometimes there is a fan speed register that can be unbolted to peer inside, but not always.

    All cars (should) have a low pressure switch to kick the compressor clutch off if the pressure goes below 30 psi or so, but many times there is also a high pressure switch.. either a combination switch with both together, or many times it is tucked in next to the expansion valve. Both switches are located in the high side line.

    My own opinion on leak dyes is that they are not needed. Provided a leak is large enough to allow dye thru, a pragmatic eye can discern the oil covered leaking fitting.

    The whole fill to 80% capacity, and the A/C won't be as cold is not entirely true. I do agree an A/C system should not be filled to max capacity regardless of whatever refridgerant is used. The fill to you see no bubbles in the site glass mentality is flawed in the sense you are assuming nothing is wrong with the system, and that conditions aren't going to change from where and when you are at that particular moment. Fill an A/C system in a garage at 75 degrees with good pressures, then take it out on a sweltering day and recheck those pressures again. If you allow a marginal pressure allowance, it saves alot of wear and tear on the system, and will last much longer. The cooling ability will not be hindered.. maybe .5-1 degree? Tint the windows, and you will see a much greater drop in temps than that marginal amount.

    My 2 cents.. I mean 2 yen..
     

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