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national minitrucks

Discussion in 'General Truck Info' started by kepow, Jan 31, 2009.

  1. kepow

    kepow Member

    Whats up with these trucks. I know the reputation of the Phillipine quality of work has been questioned in the past.....but apparently those issues have been dealt with. Does anybody here have any first hand experience with these trucks....and please lets not turn this thread into a rumour mill ...quite honestly ... I like the looks of them
     
  2. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    you might do some research on here, i think it was canadian 1 that was importing them? i might be wrong.
     
  3. Mini Truck enthusiasts. I hope to be able to clarify a few things about the Philippine trucks. There are many questions as to why there are so many websites that carry the same trucks. Let me explain. B&M Equipment Corp. is the Philippine based operations where the trucks are refurbished. Yes there were quality issues in the past that have been resolved through many changes in the company. There are quality control standards that are now in place that were not there before. B&M has been landing the Mini Mates in Canada for quite a while now with much success. National Mini trucks is the Distributor of these trucks in the USA. That is why there is Nationalminitrucks.com Minihaulertrucks.com and bandmequipment.com that carry the same truck. I would really appreciate any questions directed to myself or Steve, as like what was stated previously, we don't want the rumour mill being stirred. Yes these are great looking trucks. There is a lot that is done during the refurbishment process. Anyone is welcome to visit the plant in the Philippines to see this for yourselves. There have been many visits in the past that have led to lasting business relationships. We can not produce these trucks fast enough for the Canadian market. We all know the situation we are in because of EPA. Lets make this as pain free as possible. Please call me for any questions or comments.

    Thanks

    Candace
     
  4. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    i use different refurbishers than these people.
     
  5. pepci

    pepci Member

    We have been working on one of their trucks and I can tell you that they are not refurbished as they say.
    They have been painted over alot of bondo on the bodies and such as well as the hubs were painted thru the wheels. We have looked these rigs over and we would not recommend them as a good quality vehicle. They have been having a hard time just getting them to start. We will stick with the good ole used trucks that do not need any refurbishing. Hope all is well with you guys. Just letting you all know my experience with these trucks is all.
     
  6. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    MANY THANKS
     
  7. None of the first Generation of trucks were refurbished as promised. I bought 2 containers of these first trucks and I'm still dealing with issues. I put a lot of $ and resources into these 2nd Generation of trucks and I delayed marketing these Gen II units until we received our first container and I personally inspected them and felt comfortable selling them. I provide software and computer support for auto dealers nationwide and couldn't afford a backlash due to poor quality and workmanship like the first trucks.
    This is the reason we had to switch factories and retool with new quality control measures and 3rd party inspectors. The first trucks can't be compared to these 2nd Generation units. As an example, if you notice the gold color under the trucks, it is not paint. We applied Zinc plating to these parts. We take our frames down to bear metal and use a rubberized undercoating everywhere that corrosion can develop.

    We have a few containers of the Gen II trucks that have landed in Canada and only one in the USA. As Candace mentioned on her post, she will provide you with references who have the GII units on the ground and can validate what we are saying. Please contact me also for any additional questions but Candace will know more of the reference people since she is more involved with marketing. Also, If any of you dealers need used mini trucks let us know. We received an EPA extension in Dec and we are good to go for importation.[


    Cheers,

    Steve Alder

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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  8. steve_nagoya

    steve_nagoya Member

    That's a nice truck.
     
  9. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    they sure are shiney on the outside... what about the internals? are the motors freshened up? rebuilt? reconditioned? how about the tranny? rebuilt, freshened up? even an oil change? what about the differentials and braking systems? at the risk of sounding rude... you can dip a turd in gold but all you have is a shiney expensive turd... knowhaddamean? a fresh coat of paint and some zinc plating does nothing to insure the truck will run well. if it doesn't at least it will look good sitting broken in the driveway.

    it's my understanding that these are shipped to the phillipines in pieces... basically as "junk" and you guys pick and choose what you will assemble into a truck? so now, what gaurantees that it's all from the same model group? that when you need parts, as hard as they are to come by already, how do you know what you really have??

    i hate to play devil's advocate here, but i have heard so many horror stories about these "refurbished" trucks... seems like it's just pandora's box regardless of how nicely it's painted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  10. All trucks are Suzuki so we can duplicate everything and keep parts and all powertrain consistant for interchangability and to maintain exact tolerances. The trucks are sectioned in half prior to arriving in the Phillipines. This is no problem because we completely rebuild the truck from the frame up. These trucks are technically not refurbished but "Rebuilt". I had no luck with the refurbishing process and wanted to start from scratch. New wheels, tires,brakes, shocks, belts, hoses,ball joints, carbs, A/C compressors, basically everything that moves.

    We offer over 20 after-market options, and we built each truck based on each customers demands. Most customers want LHD, extended cab and lift kits. We add "11" inches to the cab with all new upholstery, seats, ect, ect. Since we were the first mini truck company in the USA to receive our extension, we didn't waste time on EPA compliance.
    All engines are completely rebuilt with exact tolerances and new catalytic converters. We have already ran emissions tests with our rebuilt engines with very positive results.
     
  11. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    i would be REALLY interested in the LHD conversion photos. honestly, as a fabricator by trade, i'm leary of how things are put together. can you post some photos, not of the finished product, but of some of the welds, gussets and other fabrication? it's hard to evaluate the structural integrity of something that has lots of paint and bondo over it.
     
  12. I don't currently have pics of all the different fabrication processes. I know we have very skilled welders and fabricators in the factories as I've seen their work and had them design and create many after market items such as our roof baskets, roll bars, light bars, receiver cargo baskets, dual "2" front and rear receivers that accept our brush guards, rear bumpers, snow plows, cargo baskets, ect. I know we also can also add an extra foot to the bed of the truck at a very good price but I don't have the pics of each weld. Some of us guys over 6'2 are grateful for the extended cabs with reclining/adjustable seats.
     
  13. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the pictures. I think it looks like your doing a good job.

    -Greg
     
  14. Badgerland

    Badgerland Member

    Steve,

    Thanks for coming here and facing the Mini Truck Community yourself to answer questions about these trucks. Let me start by repeating the same phrase I've heard over-&-over again from frustrated/hostile/borderline homicidal dealers and distributors of the absolute garbage Gen-I trucks: The concept is fantastic...the execution, HORRIFIC! The only compliment I've heard on those trucks to date was the upholstery after talking to so many people with first-hand experience. :sly: Most described the 6 month warranty as absolutely worthless with NO support from the apparent previous administration.

    Not a great rock to have to crawl out from under.

    So here lies a large audience of VERY reserved on-lookers and skeptics (dealers and enthusiasts) that, again, love the conept of what you're trying to do. If these were quality trucks, I would be buying.

    In a civil manner, I'd like to ask you to answer some questions that may help clear the air.
    Whats your plan to fix this disaster? Is B & M Equipment still the parent company of this operation? Are Dan & Greg still at the helm?
    Who is calling the shots today? I've heard everything about the changes that you've made to date (which all sounds like big steps in the right direction), but understand that its all talk until there is a quality product being produced. How could the previous operation honestly hope for any type of quality control with-out a single administrative body on-site at the factory? Did it honestly take this long and that many mistakes to get a manager on-site?

    When will there be trucks available for interested dealers to see prior to making any monetary committment to a known, problematic company? As I understand it, the U.S. trucks are already back-ordered? What is your logistical plan to fill dealer orders in the U.S. IF, hypothetically you were to acquire say one dealer in every state. Whats the production capabilties? As they stood before, this concept was a sinking brick all by itself. There was no way that B & M could fill any kind of quota (which turned-out to be a good thing).

    Please understand that I would be happy to talk to you direct, but I guarantee you that there are many people here that have very similiar questions and no one is going to hand-over a dime in these tough times until the air is cleared and there is some kind of safety net on such a huge risk with nearly criminal history.

    I'm not trying to sound argumentative in any way. Truthfully, if I wasnt interested in this concept, I honestly wouldn't waste the time to make a post here or even discuss the issue.

    Thanks in advance for taking the time to come here and address the problems yourself, as well as answer the communities questions about your product.
     
  15. pepci

    pepci Member

    Well the Minihaulers we are currently working on for them is honestly a "POS" and we would not recommend them to anyone. The welding and refurbishing process done to them is quite bad. Like Milt said you can gold plate a turd and all you have is an expensive turd. Pictures from the factory is not good evidence as they too can be staged as well. Refurbished means to make shiny and look new not rebuilt. Even the body work is not good as we have bondo everywhere in these rigs. But hope it works out for the buyers of these trucks but it will not be me or my dealers selling them that is for sure.
     

  16. When we began cleaning up the mess from the original management and factory, we knew we had a huge hill to climb after we dug ourselves out of the hole! B&M still holds the name but under completely different management. We litterally had to cancel pending orders and completely shut down the entire operation for 4 months to get the factories back on-line with the correct procedures. This showed a lot of commitment, resolve and determination to suspend the orders, (cash flow), until the problems were fixed! Now we have an active manager on the ground 6 days a week where in the past the guy in charge was on a different island! We also are producing enough trucks that we need a full-time quality control inspector present also.

    As far as production goes, the Gen II trucks currently take 5-6 weeks for production because the rebuilding process takes so long and the Q.C. issue will not be compromised as it was in the past.
    We are hoping to be able to produce 200 Mini Haulers per month very soon once our 3rd factory is up and running so we are very limited on supply but since we have designed a successful prototype truck it is much easier to expand since we have the desired "blueprint" and structured processes in place. Don't get me wrong, we aren't perfect nor are the trucks but we are constantly trying to improve and thats are objective.

    The "Mini Runner" line of used Suzuki mini trucks currently takes 3 weeks and this will be reduced to 2 weeks very soon. These trucks are not refurbished. They all have freshly rebuilt engines and new catalyltic converter and new interior, body work, paint and tires. The dash boards are not touched and they are all regular cab, RHD for a very good price.

    As far as seeing the trucks, we will be making a long 2 week marketing trip in the NW as soon as soon as the weather permits. Please contact us if you are an interested dealer in this region and we try and stop by and you can take a microscope to the Gen II's. When our Gen II's begin landing at other locations, we will provide our dealer contact info on our website and hopefully we'll have trucks nearby.

    I hope this answers a few questions regarding these trucks. Thankfully we had enough dealers and folks that didn't give up on us and gave us a second chance. We refuse to go backwards and our commitment is perfection and we will constantly strive for that goal.

    Thanks,

    Steve
     
  17. getinold

    getinold New Member

    so is there any news on how this operation is doing now and does anyone know if they have a factory near cebu city? my employer is there now and is looking at buying some trucks and is looking over some of the suppliers.
     
  18. MiniBrutes

    MiniBrutes Member

    Yes, their have facilities in Cebu. However, you will not be able to buy direct from their facilities as they have agreements in place to not sell to any export market.

    After going ourselves, they do have the best trucks over there. There is some absolutely horrid facilities producing some absolutely horrid products.
     
  19. getinold

    getinold New Member

    thanks minibrutes

    do they only sell to the local market?
     
  20. MiniBrutes

    MiniBrutes Member

    No no, they sell to North America through National Mini Trucks. (The only way you can get trucks from that particular facility) And to the local market. So to buy their trucks you need to go through National. (unless you go to another facility, but man, some of the places we went to were pretty ugly)

    The domestic Filipino standards are quite low. It is very difficult to get them to understand North Americans need much higher quality. The Filipino attitude towards these trucks is mostly one of "barely enough" if you know what I mean.

    You do NOT want a truck built for their local market. They seem like a good deal, but are really just Candy Coated poop. Mmmm. Candy Pooop.
     
  21. getinold

    getinold New Member

    thanks again minibrutes.
    i will email the boss with the info.
     
  22. Badgerland

    Badgerland Member

    Well... a little update on this whole gawd-awful experience...

    I'm going to keep this short and understand that this is just OUR opinion of the Mini Hauler product being imported by National Mini Trucks.

    My business associate got two of these trucks delivered for thorough hands-on inspection before we made any type of monetary investment - that only took two months longer than promised. There was shipping damage on both trucks that was going to require repair/re-paint, etc. Not really a big deal. However, one of the trucks would not even run. Their answer was carb-tuning because of the extreme difference in climate zones, etc. Carb adjustment on these trucks is the absolute least of the concerns. When my associate spoke to (name withheld) on the phone regarding the engine problems, he was staight-out told that when they rebuild these engines, the cylinders are bored-out .030", yet they use standard OE rings to save costs and do not see any problem with this practice. WTF?!?!?! :confused:

    That was really the straw that broke the camels back. Nothing on these trucks is quality except for the interior upholstery. This person obviously takes some pride in his work and I complement him/her on their fine craftsmanship. National Mini Trucks should really model their production practice after this laborer and they really deserve a raise...from $0.78 to $0.85 a day.

    We were really hoping to receive a quaility product, even if it wasn't perfect. One would think that even a shady company might send potential new buyers the absolute best products for review that they could...(edit: maybe trucks that even run). NOPE...they can't even get that one right. In our humble opinions, we would've given these guys about $1500 for these two train wreck parts trucks and called it a day. As it is, we lost no money and only time to our frustration of what we were hoping might be a good product.

    I can't even comment on the other ridiculous responses we received back from this company in answer to all of the concerns we raised about the poor quality of their trucks. :frustration:

    So, in closing, stay away from these people. Nothing has changed...still an electro-plated pile of crap.
     
  23. Mighty Milt

    Mighty Milt Active Member

    you know what they say... "you can polish a turd, but in the end you just have a shiney turd"

    sorry to hear about your experience and losses, but take heart in the fact that by passing this along you will save many others the same heartache and headache.
     
  24. pepci

    pepci Member

    I have said it in the past and will say it again. These trucks are junk with a nice paint job and even that is not good. I would like to know how national can feel good about the trucks they sell and if they have any conscience or not? Will they pay for us to go to there facility to look at the crap ?
    They do not and will not be producing quality trucks anytime soon so beware folks. Now they will want us to buy the chinese crap that is a new version of crap.We have worked on some of there trucks and they were really hard starting and when they did start they ran poorly.
    We will no longer work on or recommend these to anyone . Canadian 1 sells another brand of these trucks so watch for them as well.Check them out real close before making a buying decision.
     
  25. Rancher

    Rancher New Member

    I am really curious what the current ststus of this company is? The thread basically just stopped. Are they gone?
     
  26. MichTrucks

    MichTrucks Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Not using a certified engine family!

    I will guess that with the EPA requirements that will be implemented for USED mini trucks they will not be able to comply. As they cut and piece together units they will not be compliant to EPA testing requirement of each engine family.

    Just my thoughts! We will see better after December 2009 I guess.
     
  27. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    brand name

    canadian1 sells honda,suzuki,daihatsu,mazda,mitsubishi and subaru
     
  28. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    answer

    the trucks are shipped "WHOLE" from japan to the philippines by ocean going vehicle ferry boats. they are never cut. the ones you purchase from vietnam have been cut for shipping purpose.
     
  29. MichTrucks

    MichTrucks Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    I just remember seeing a huge amount of pictures posted that showed their operation. Those pictures showed rows for cabs ONLY. The EPA regs. (which aren't yet finalized) require the cat. converter, drive train and other components to be all of the same family (family as described by the EPA).

    Those of us that actually are getting certified are acutely aware of the requirements, while those giving "the we are certifying speech" don't have a clue of what the requirement actually are.

    Perhaps I was mistaken to believe the trucks for the PI are not matched components. Sorry for any misunderstandings.
     
  30. canadian1

    canadian1 Member

    Certified

    what makes you think we are not certified? we have been importing for 5 yrs.
     

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