Texans, Don't Throw In The Towel Just Yet!

Glad to see your still around WOLFMAN! I've called and e-mailed and have been tryin to get the same out of everyone that owns a mini truck. We don't stand a chance if this does not get out of committee!

 

Just got off the phone with Phil King's office and the Transportation committee. Everybody needs to call both the transportation comittee at 512-463-0818 and Phil King's office at 512-463-0738. Apparently Phil King's staff is supposed to verify with all of the transportation comittee so that may here the bill in comittee.

 

Only sort of. I have not followed the forum with any semblance of regularity since I sold the Hijet. I am however, still very much in support of getting these trucks road legal, and would happily buy another if they do.

That said, I will be contacting Rep. King and the Transportation committee shortly.

 

I have called both Rep. king and the transportation comittee. I'm also going to get my neighbor to call, as he was very interested in buying one until TXDOT pulled its shenanigans.

 

C'mon guys! Trax is right, time is running out FAST. Call, write and/or email the House Transportation Committee and Phil King.

Get your friends, neighbors, co-workers, church congregation, ect. to do the same! This is our opportunity and it is slipping away.

 

RPM,
I've called the transportation committee, Joe Pickett, and Phil King's office several times this week. We have to bug the crap out of them until we atleast get the bill heard in the committee!

 

I spoke with Rep. King's Chief of Staff today. Bad news. HB4495 will not get a hearing in committee.

TXDOT is throwing a roadblock and will not consider them for road use until the Federal government approves them first. She suggested contacting US Rep. Kay Grainger and going at it from the Federal level.

Sorry guys, I tried my best. Until the vehicle manufacturers try to get them legal, it looks like we are SOL in Texas.

 

I agree with chicken. Got to keep at it. The first time it went though in Oklahoma it failed.Then when gas was at 3.80 a gal. it passed.
The city of Temple, Tx uses these trucks in the water dept. I saw one downtown at the court house with a ladder rack with ladders on it, had 2 tool boxes running down both sides of the bed, water dept. sticker on both doors, and had Texas exempt plates. Its obvious that it runs around town. I live in Austin and go by The University of Texas almost on a daily bases. They have Kawasaki Mules, EZ-GO ST's, Vantage Mini trucks, running around campus as well as city owned streets surrounding campus. These aren't little city streets, major streets, Red River, Martin Luther King Blvd,Guadalupe, Dean Keaton. The only thing they have is a orange triangle mounted on back. It cant be a safety issue. We also have a handful of Zenn cars running around town. A Zenn is all electric but not even close to the Smart car safe crash. I have a neighbor that drives his EZ-GO golf cart to work couple times a week. 36 v, it does have all the lights, horn ect. and is registered and plated. Doesnt need a inspection for what ever reason. Go figure. He is perfectly legal. He is limited to 35 mph and under streets.
We got 2 more yrs. to get primed again for the next legislation session. I am sure more trucks will be in Texas and we will have more voices that can be heard.
Thanks to everyone that called, wrote letters and sent emails.
"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained"

 

Yes this is a bunch of crap! I guess we didn't grease the right pockets. These street legal golf carts are so much safer than these mini trucks! It gets so frustrating when you see all of these vehicles that have less business on the streets than these mini trucks. I just don't understand how all of these motorcycles, mopeds, and other contraptions have no problem getting tags. I still believe there may be a loophole or back door way to get them tagged. Oh well, its time to start fighting TXDOT on all these toll roads they are trying to shove down our throats. This only round one!

 

WE DID IT IN AZ!!! Street Legal!!!

WE DID IT IN AZ!!!

http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=5091

 

I am in with you . lets do this again.

 

Fast forward 11 years...... Not sure if vehicle >25 years old alters this any?

 

Thats BS because the fed law dictates if its over 25 years old it be allowed to be imported and street legal no matter what the compliance is or is not with the safety standards.

 

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. I'm glad that it provided the 'reasons', so that it should be easier to interpret this portion as 'not applicable' to vehicles exempt from environmental and safety standards. I think the intent of that section was for vehicles that are subject to those standards.

However, what bugs/concerns me is that there seems no attempt at allowing this vehicle type, regardless of age, to be classified as any sort of allowable vehicle. All I need is a neighborhood type vehicle, but didn't want a golf cart or mule, etc.

Fingers crossed.

 

Of all places I would least expect Texas to be like this. I mean when I lived in Austin it was legal to drive around with a beer in your hand. Texas has changed!

 

Hmm. I would contact a dealer that imports them and get a copy of the federal import rules and auth. I believe they are talking about NEWER minitrucks. I don't see why you couldnt register and drive this anywhere if it meets the federal exemption rules. I've seen these on the road in Cali and they are one of the strictest. I have seen the NEWER ones for sale but they say you can't register them and they speed limit them. But the old one.... I put my money on yes. Let me know if I win! Good luck!

 

I contacted TxDMV online last week. Below is what I wrote. I don't expect anything soon.

RE: TITLING AND/OR REGISTERING A 26 YEAR OLD FOREIGN MARKET JAPANESE MINI-TRUCK (AKA KEI-CLASS VEHICLE).


I recently tried to title/register/plate a 1995 Daihatsu Hijet Pick-up. Based on its age, I knew neither environmental nor safety standards applied. I was unsure if the vehicle needed to be handled as either: (1) a normal motor import vehicle, thus incurring all the Ch 18 & Ch 19 requirements (TxDMV Motor Vehicle Title Manual October 2021 revision), or (2) a titled, unregistered Off-highway vehicle, (UTV, Utility Vehicle), and be able to be issued OHV (Off Highway Vehicle) License Plates. I was prepared to have all the necessary paperwork for either scenario.


However, what I was told was that this type of vehicle is NOT titled, NOT registered, and therefore canNOT be issued any type of license plates. No matter the vehicles age. No other provision whatsoever. Absolutely nothing else can be done. Needless to say, this was not a scenario I had anticipated.


Where is this prohibition addressed in the TX Transportation Code? The local office referenced Section 14.11 of the Title Manual, but, unlike other sections in that manual, no Code reference was provided. Additionally, the reasons provided in the Title Manual for the no title/no registration are due to “the vehicle’s lack of compliance with US environmental and safety standards,” yet there are no such standards to comply with on vehicles over 25 years of age? So how is that a justified prohibition?


What I would like is permission from the State to either: (1) title/register/plate the vehicle as a normal 26 year old motor vehicle, or (2) title the vehicle only and be issued OHV license plates so that the vehicle can lawfully be used in situations permitted by OHV. I prefer Scenario (2).


Thanks for your time and consideration.
​

 

Hear anything back? I have a sambar heading my way, I’m from Fort Worth.

 

You need to ask the Attorney General what code they are exercising.. And, always copy your elected representatives, and the relevant committee chair.

 

Yes.

Their Dec 17 reply:

Hello,


Thank you for contacting us with your title and registration questions regarding mini trucks. It is my pleasure to further assist you today.


Texas does not allow the title and/or registration of mini trucks. These vehicles are not eligible for title and/or registration due to the vehicle’s lack of compliance with US environmental and safety standards. For additional details and information please visit Chapter 14 of our Title Manual which references Transportation Code Section 501.002 (17).


Thank you for your patience and understanding. Have a wonderful day!


My Dec 20 reply:

Thank you for your response.


Does the lack of titling and registering ALSO prevent me from getting either Golf Cart or Off-Highway Vehicle License Plates? For example, Golf Carts are also neither titled nor registered, yet they are available for license plates and are allowed by Texas law on certain public roads with certain restrictions.


Additionally, for a 26 year old vehicle (model year 1995), I have US DOT Form HS-7 which asserts its compliance with US safety standards, and a US EPA 3520-1 Form which asserts its compliance with US environmental standards. Thus, US asserts its eligibility, right? I’m confused how Texas can say US doesn’t allow it when I have US forms that says US does allow it?


So, are there ADDITIONAL Texas laws that prohibit (1) title, (2) registration, and (3) license plates?


My Proposal: allow me to be issued unregistered off-highway vehicle license plates in accordance with Section 551A.052. (further below)


The reference you provided, Section 501.002 (17), does not seem to define “mini truck”.

(17) "Motor vehicle" means:

(A) any motor driven or propelled vehicle required to be registered under the laws of this state;

(B) a trailer or semitrailer, other than manufactured housing, that has a gross vehicle weight that exceeds 4,000 pounds;

(C) a travel trailer;

(D) an off-highway vehicle, as defined by Section 551A.001; or

(E) a motorcycle or moped that is not required to be registered under the laws of this state.​

The reference in (17)(D) further defines an off-highway vehicle:

Sec. 551A.001. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "All-terrain vehicle" means a motor vehicle that is:

(A) equipped with a seat or seats for the use of:

(i) the rider; and

(ii) a passenger, if the motor vehicle is designed by the manufacturer to transport a passenger;​

(B) designed to propel itself with three or more tires in contact with the ground;

(C) designed by the manufacturer for off-highway use;

(D) not designed by the manufacturer primarily for farming or lawn care; and

(E) not more than 50 inches wide.​

(1-b) "Commission" means the Texas Commission of Licensing and Regulation.

(1-c) "Department" means the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation.

(1-d) "Off-highway vehicle" means:

(A) an all-terrain vehicle or recreational off-highway vehicle;

(B) a sand rail; or

(C) a utility vehicle.​

(2) "Beach" means a beach area, publicly or privately owned, that borders the seaward shore of the Gulf of Mexico.

(3) "Sand rail" means a vehicle, as defined by Section 502.001, that:

(A) is designed or built primarily for off-highway use in sandy terrains, including for use on sand dunes;

(B) has a tubular frame, an integrated roll cage, and an engine that is rear-mounted or placed midway between the front and rear axles of the vehicle; and

(C) has a gross vehicle weight, as defined by Section 541.401, of:

(i) not less than 700 pounds; and

(ii) not more than 2,000 pounds.​

(4) "Public off-highway vehicle land" means land on which off-highway recreation is authorized under Chapter 29, Parks and Wildlife Code.

(5) "Recreational off-highway vehicle" means a motor vehicle that is:

(A) equipped with a seat or seats for the use of:

(i) the rider; and

(ii) a passenger or passengers, if the vehicle is designed by the manufacturer to transport a passenger or passengers;​

(B) designed to propel itself with four or more tires in contact with the ground;

(C) designed by the manufacturer for off-highway use by the operator only; and

(D) not designed by the manufacturer primarily for farming or lawn care.
​

(6) "Utility vehicle" means a motor vehicle that is not a golf cart, as defined by Section 551.401, or lawn mower and is:

(A) equipped with side-by-side seating for the use of the operator and a passenger;

(B) designed to propel itself with at least four tires in contact with the ground;

(C) designed by the manufacturer for off-highway use only; and

(D) designed by the manufacturer primarily for utility work and not for recreational purposes.​

Thus, even if the 26 year old “mini truck” is somehow not considered a highway vehicle, it seems AT MINIMUM to qualify as a type of off-highway vehicle?


Which, even if deemed only an off-highway vehicle, still allows me to secure license plates per Section 551A.052(c), right?

Sec. 551A.052. REGISTRATION; LICENSE PLATES.

(a) Except as provided by Section 502.140(c), the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles may not register an off-highway vehicle for operation on a highway regardless of whether any alteration has been made to the vehicle.

(b) An operator may operate an unregistered off-highway vehicle on a highway in a manner authorized by this subchapter only if the vehicle displays a license plate issued under this section.

(c) The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles:

(1) shall by rule establish a procedure to issue license plates for unregistered off-highway vehicles; and

(2) may charge a fee not to exceed $10 for the cost of the license plate, to be deposited to the credit of the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles fund.​

(d) An off-highway vehicle license plate issued under Subsection (c) does not expire. A person who becomes the owner of an off-highway vehicle for which the previous owner obtained a license plate may not use the previous owner's license plate.


Added by Acts 2019, 86th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1233 (H.B. 1548), Sec. 31, eff. June 14, 2019.​

Thanks for any help or assistance you can continue to provide!


Their Dec 23 reply:

Hello,


Thank you for contacting us again. It is my pleasure to further assist you today.


We have forwarded your inquiry for further handling. Someone from the appropriate area will follow up with you shortly from now.


Thank you, and have a wonderful day!

 

Everything about emissions, power, and safety seems Inconclusive when comparing Mini Trucks to motorcycles

 

The issue arises because in the eighties and early nineties when several manufacturers, were importing mini trucks as on campus utility vehicles, they were re-engineered to be off-highway vehicles, not cpapble of exceeding 25-mph, so they could circumvent emissions and safety standards.

Various schemes were used to limit the speed. Daihatsu, put CirClips on the shifter rods in the transmission and transfer case, which restricted the transfer case to low range, and limited the transmission to 3-speeds. Plus they added a governor to the carburetor, so that if the speedometer cable spun fast enough to indicate a speed of 25-mph, it would pulse a solenoid, to lean out the mains fuel system, and keep the vehicle from going any faster.

People bought them as the factories, the military, and other government agencies started surplussing them. And, they tried to license them. Since they were not 25-years old at time of importation they could not be licensed, as they met neither safety or emissions standards, and did not get a waiver due to age at import. The fact that people are now importing 25-year old vehicles, which are exempt from teh emissions and safety standards doesn’t seem to enter their minds.. The minitrucks imported at 25-years or more after manufacture typically come with the exemption paperwork.

The National Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, published a nifty paper full of falsehoods about how unsafe the minitrucks are, etc. They occasionally republish the paper, and sent it out again just a few months ago.

As I said earlier start copying the Attorney Generals office and your elected representatives. You should probably bypass the Motor Vehicles folks, and write the AG directly, asking for an opinion, with copies to your representatives.

You want to be sure to include the representatives, and write them letter explaining the situation in clear language. Offer to let them have a test drive, to increase their understanding of what your talking about. The last thing you want is for the AG, to tell them to license them, and then have them lobby the next legislature to specifically ban them.

 

https://jalopnik.com/here-is-the-organization-behind-the-many-states-banning-1848104429

Reposting this article that I saw elsewhere in this forum. Seems pertinent here. It gives me hope that (eventually) Texas will allow minitrucks to be licensed as off-road vehicles. Although that is still restrictive, it at least opens the door to allow these vehicles to be operated on some public roads.

 

Wow, I hope this insane AAMVA trend doesn't spread to more states. I just got my title today and am waiting on my WA plates with bated breath. Motorcycles are far more dangerous than these things but those will never get banned.

 

I was traveling on I-10 today, east of Houston. It was light rain, 38F, and I was going about 80mph, middle lane. Super windy, about 30mph gusts. Motorcycle cop passed me in the left lane.

Point? I really have no idea why people keep comparing these minitrucks to motorcycles?! It’s such a nonsense argument? It totally neglects the design of the vehicle and the additional training required to operate a motorcycle.

As far as I know, minitruck manufacturers don’t claim to be fully road worthy? Am I wrong in that thinking?

I think these vehicles are great on roads up to about 40mph. Some states allow use on lower speed roads. Texas allows off-road vehicles on roads up to 35mph, IIRC.

But to call these minitrucks any road worthy, for any driver, anywhere, without any modification, seems to entirely disrespect the design purpose of these vehicles.

Sorry to rant, but the motorcycle comparison irks me. I realize I’m in the minority.

 

As a motorcyclist I understand your frustration, but when one of the arguments used against Mini trucks is crash test ratings it’s hard to not make the comparison, or when emissions is being discussed; I can’t help but to think of all those non catted 1700 cc motorcycles on the street. I’m not so naive to believe that mini trucks or even most cars on Texas roads have the ability to operate like a motorcycle does. But the two most injuries I see come into the ER are motorcycle wrecks and table saw accidents, and even if mini trucks become legal I don’t believe that this will change. But I really don’t care if these trucks become legal on roads that require speeds greater than 50 mph, I just want to be allowed to drive to the feed store to grab grub for the livestock.

 

For Texas, I think your best bet is to hope Texas allows you to register as an off-road vehicle (which seems an option endorsed by the AAMVA), and then not get caught on 50mph roads!

 

I am still intrigued by the motorcycle comparison. I’ll try and throw a few thoughts out to demonstrate why I think it is a poor comparison.

I am completely comfortable in readily agreeing that motorcycles are less safe and more pollutant than minitrucks. I think it is a little more complicated than what initially seems obvious, but I can concede and still have my concern.

Regarding safety: I think it is unwise to compare minitruck crash ratings with motorcycles. Why? – because motorcycles don’t even have crash ratings, do they? It’s like the lowest bar in the history of all vehicles, and that is what the minitruck will be compared to? Just by its very design, the motorcycle screams “THIS VEHICLE OFFERS NO CRASH PROTECTION WHATSOEVER!” You don’t need a flip-down sun visor warning to know that! (And I’m not yet convinced that being ejected off a bike is necessarily worse that being crunched/rolled in a small metal can—they both seem equally crummy to me, depending on the surrounding situation. But, not my point.)

Regarding emissions: similar thoughts – you’re going to compare the minitruck to a non-emission-control vehicle? How does that benefit the minitruck? “Look – our vehicle is slightly better than the worst, so you should approve our use as well.” I don’t see that happening…ever. (And I’m not yet convinced emissions of 1700cc motorcycles are significantly worse that a 660cc minitruck? If motorcycle averages 2000 rpms at 50mph, and a minitruck averages 6000 rpms at 50mph, obviously the minitruck is pumping out more exhaust. Just not sure what kind of emission level it’s trying to achieve? But, again, not my point.)

Asking a government official to (1) assert itself as expert above the manufacturer's specifications and approving a vehicle for use in a manner in which it was not designed, AND (2) reduce the overall safety of the public vehicle pool by allowing the influx of low cost, less safe vehicles, AND (3) increase the overall pollutants of the public vehicle pool by allowing the influx of low cost, higher pollutant vehicles, SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE to me??? I feel like that is what the motorcycle comparison eventually gets you?

Maybe the point I’m trying to make can be summarized simply by this: 4 wheeled vehicles need to be compared to 4 wheeled vehicles.

Final thought: if motorcycles were introduced to the market afresh today, do you think they would be allowed? I think they are only allowed now because they have been around forever and are essentially grandfathered indefinitely.

Good discussion.

 

I understand your logic better now, we shouldn't be comparing a horse to a fish. Trying to explain how safe a vehicle is by comparing it to a vehicle everyone knows isn’t safe seems counterintuitive. I agree with this.

I was reading the book by AAMVA on how to handle Mini Trucks and at first they talk about how to handle mini trucks if the state decides to make them illegal, but they also discuss handling mini trucks if the state decides to legalize them, placing the decision completely in the States hands. My understanding is that back about 10 or so
Years ago there was a bill to legalize mini trucks on Texas roads but there was no one to push the bill along and it disappeared. The question is, are mini trucks illegal in Texas because it just didn’t have enough support? And if that’s not the answer then what are the main reasons for Mini trucks (25 years old) to be branded as a none legal motor vehicle?

 

Quick answer: I don't know. Everything below is off the top of my head. I'm not sure of its accuracy.

I don't recall if it lacked support, or if it died because no manufacturer was willing to deem the vehicle public road worthy (safety and emissions). And, to be fair to manufacturers of vehicles that DO go through the effort and get their vehicles approved for USA roads, I couldn't support minitrucks being granted any sort of pass jus cuz. Capitalism has merit, but it still needs a structure!

Thus, to my knowledge, Texas minitrucks were being BOTH titled AND registered as normal vehicles under the '25 year import' exclusions...but I think TxDMV has wised up to that, and are prohibiting all minitrucks regardless of 25 year import allowances. You'll still see Texans claiming to have titles and registration, but just recently (as in less than a year?!), the TxDMV handbook has made it clear to both define minitrucks and indicate they are neither titled nor registered. The only lack of clarity I see is they don't seem to indicate if they honor the 25 year import exclusions. So, you might find a DPS place that will allow registering, but I fear you'll have to 'get lucky'. (And, for me personally, I don't understand the 25 year stuff. I'm sure it has some various history roots, but it does reek of a silly 'loop hole'. I think the 'legality' of a minitruck needs to stand on its own merit, regardless of age.)

Selfishly, I would like minitrucks to be considered UTVs. In Texas, you can title a UTV, but not register. If you want to use UTVs on select public roads, then you have the option to get off-road Texas plates. And, with that, you have your 'foot in the door', so to speak. Then, the only 'illegal' thing you could do is drive on a 45mph road, while going 45mph, and an officer pull you over, not for speeding, but simply driving on a road not permitted by off-road plates. I'm not sure how often that would happen? But, even if it does, there are still lots of roads that you can legally drive on with the off-road plates. HOWEVER, since Texas DOES title UTVs and DOES NOT title minitrucks, then their current logic is: it's not a UTV. Yes, I know, that is circular reasoning, but...our fight is with the collective intelligence of the system.

So, what vehicle in Texas is NEITHER titled NOR registered, YET eligible for off-road plates? Golf Carts. To me, that is good news, because the door is open to get legal plates on a vehicle neither titled nor registered. Thus, if TxDMV simply considers minitrucks as 'close enough' to UTVs or golf carts, I feel we should be able to get plates. But, hasn't happened yet, as far as I know.

A last IMPORTANT caveat...minitrucks are NOT addressed in the actual Texas Code, as far as I can tell. The minitruck prohibitions are spelled out IN THE TxDMV HANDBOOK ONLY. I think that is important, because NO LAW NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. A simple revision to the handbook and a memo to all of the DPS places should suffice to allow off-roads plates to be granted. That seems MUCH easier to me than advocating for any sort of law change.

Notice...not a single comparison to motorcycles!