2001 suzuki will not idle and lost top end power

i have a 2001 suzuki carry with F6A motor. i have notice a loss of power on the top gears, and it will not idle now. i went from the stock tires at 21.5" to a 23" tire. i know there will be some loss of power because of the bigger tires. when i crank my truck it smell like it is running rich. i took it to a mechanic and he used injection cleaner system on it. there was a lot of carbon cleaned out of it. it seemed to run smoother when i picked it up, but later that day it would not idle. i have to keep my foot on the gas to keep it running. i have unplugged the injectors one at a time and the motor would start missing, and the same with the coil packs. the mechanic checked the vacuum and said it read 18. we can not get it to idle, has new plugs, new air filter. any suggestions

thanks, Scott

 

Will it start easy if not hate to say it you are having the same problem I had with my 03 K6A rings bad. Run a compression test to see what you got should be 150-160 psi. After your compression test go for the sensors. Like Greg said throttle position sensor or cam position sensor.

 

fuel filter or in-tank screen/filter... also check what kind of pressure and volume you are getting from your fuel pump. JMHO

 

Just going to throw this out there,
It runs rich and he said it had a lot of carbon in it so kinda makes me think the compression is not enough to burn all the gas the injectors are putting out and then its kinda of flooding out some . Milt will get you figured out he always did for me!!!

 

it could be too much fuel pressure flooding past the injectors?

 

Good point never thought about that.

 

how much pressure should it have? we could not check it while it was running but we put a gauge on the main line and pressed it up and got 50psi. if this is too much, would this cause it not to idle? if you give it a touch of throttle it runs fine it is all most like it needs to be idled up. but that does not explain the power lost. i know there should be a little lost from the bigger tires, but it seemed to be more when i started using it every weekend for deer hunting. thanks for all the help

 

after we ran the injector system through it, it ran fine. when i got home it idled fine for about thirty min. of running i put a stick on the gas peddle to run it at a higher rpm maybe 1000rpms. when i checked on it it was idling up and down. i took the stick out and it idled fine. latter that night i left it running outside a friends camp and when i got in it to go to my camp when i let off the gas it went dead. i can give it very little gas and it will crank fine just will not idle. i did get it to barly idle if i let off the gas very slow, but it would not do it every time. if the injectors had trash in them, it would run rough right? you can unplug the injectors and it will run rough and same if you unplug the coil packs.

 

i'm not real smart with EFI systems, i'll say that first of all. BUT... 50psi seems excessive to me? i know that most fuel pumps (like the little universal ones from facet) are only about 7-10psi. i know that my drag car only ran 10psi and that was going to dual 48IDA carbs (4 48mm venturies).

if you have too much pressure and it's blowing past the injectors you won't have enough air to go with the fuel. that will give you your "rich" condition. and if you have that much fuel flooding the cylinder, that would explain why when you crack the throttle it will idle, it's getting enough air for the fuel.

i could be wayyyy off base on this, but without having it in front of me it's the best i can do.

 

thanks for all the help. i will do some more checking on the fuel pressure. i am going to order the manuals so my mechanic will have all of the specs and parts list. when i find out the problem i will post it. if anyone has any other ideas let me know. thanks again guys.

 

the check engine light is not on and we checked the codes and there was none. we checked the pressure with it not running. we did not have anyway to check it while it was running. i am going to take it to someone that can check the pressure with it running. i will have to look for the fuel regulator and vacuum line. i think the pump, filter, and regulator are in the tank. there is a small canister with a vacuum line with one line going to the tank, is this the vacuum diaphram and how can i check it.

 

thanks, i will check it when we check the fuel pressure.

 

Hey Firemanscottc how did you check for codes? I tryed Snap-on, Genisis, and Actron and none would read the computer? just curious what computer and chip you used.
This is a Reference only has nothing to do with F6A or A K6A just a understanding how a EFI system works and what pressures it works with!!!
System Basics
It is important to familiarize yourself with the basic EFI mechanical components and function to be able to understand why certain things need to be a certain way. All EFI systems use a high pressure pump to supply fuel to the injectors. This is almost always electrically driven. Most systems run between 35 and 45 psi. Fuel is supplied to fuel rails or a fuel block which is connected to the injectors. The other end of the fuel rail or block is connected to a fuel pressure regulator. Its function is to hold the fuel pressure at a constant differential above the intake manifold pressure. It does this by returning unused fuel back to the fuel tank. The pump always puts out a constant volume of fuel and more than the engine requires at full throttle so most of the fuel is returned back to the tank under idle and low power conditions.

 

I would agree as well that 50 PSI is not out of line for EFI fuel pressure.
When you did the injector cleaning did any vacuum lines get removed from anywhere?
Was something removed to insert a nozzle in the manifold or other ?
Possible vacuum leak?
Also MAF or MAP sensor malfunction even though check engine light not on.

Slightly OT but interesting:

Yamaha outboard Direct Inject fuel pressure = 700 PSI
Latest automotive Direct Inject that uses Piezo Direct Fuel Injection =200 BAR or 2900 PSI

 

seems the odd thing here is that the engine did idle good after the injector cleaning so compression wouldnt come and go would it? could the pressure regulator be failing?

i think the o2 sensor tells the ecm to change the pulse width of the injector to adjust the amount of fuel as necessary for a given demand and exhaust content.(other sensors are in play too)
it may be possible to clean the 02 sensor but dont use chemical cleaners until you check further into it.

some things that change at idle
1. voltage from the alternator drops (fuel pump slows down?)
2. manifold vacuum increases (provided there is no leak)(some effect on regulator?)
3.volume and psi of air entering the intake system changes. (map or maf ?)
4.exhaust temp and psi changes. (o2 sensor?) (convertor flow?)

hope this helps some.

 

greg0187 that sounds closer than anything yet. good idea!

 

greg 0187, i have not had a chance to look for IAC valve. if i find it you said that there is ways to clean it? what did you look under online?

thanks for all the help.

 

I have not cleaned the valve on my 02 Carry K6A yet, but am going to when it warms up outside. I have had idle issues in the past, but replacing a bad muffler appears to have fixed it. I just realized that it really had not been much above freezing since I replaced the muffler and it was only idling rough in warmer weather (which would point to the IAC). I found 3 articles that each appear to have some merit regarding cleaning the IAC. Check these out:

http://www.explorer4x4.com/iac.htm

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781242

http://www.iroczone.com/techartcleaniac.html

 

Hey Firemanscottc, I just went home at lunch and looked at mine. I have a K6A engine and it appears that the IAC valve is located on the bottom of the throttle body (driver's side of engine) and is not going to be a two-bolt job. It looks like you might be able to remove the throtle body as a unit and then remove the IAC valve from the throttle body. Make sure you disconnect you negative battery connection first.

When I got my truck it had a lot of oil/gunk in the air filter. The way the IAC valve is located on these things it is very possible (more like probable) that oil/crud could enter the valve through air-flow or simply via gravity in my case with so much oil in the air filter area. Anyway, it looks like mine is due for a spring cleaning (yes, pun intended. I will wait for the spring(weather) to clean the sping(valve)). Be very careful with the gasket. That might be hard to find without having someone go to Japan.

 

2001 Suzuki will not idol and loss of power

april 2, 2009
I have a 2001 suzuki carry DB52T F6A motor. i was having problems with power loss and i cleaned the injection system. then it started where it would not idle. and i would have to give it a little gas to keep it running.

now no fire, injectors not pulseing, fuel pump not coming on. any sugestions? we have the parts catalogue and factory service manual.

April 3, 2009
we found that the wire going to the cam sensor was loose. once he conected it the truck fired right up. i stile have a loss of power and the truck smells like it is running rich. would that have something to do with the air idol control sensor? when we take the air idol control sensor plug off, there is no change in the sound of the motor. when we turn on the A/C the truck does not idol up either. shouldent the motor change if we take the air idol control sensor plug off and when the A/C is turned on and off? they were going to take the air idol sensor off and try to clean it with some oxygen sensor cleaner this after noon. i will check on the out come of that tomorrow (FRI). he checked the fuel pressure and he said it was good. what pressure should it have running and or just pressured up? could fuel pressure have anything to do with power loss? if you have any suggestions please let me know.

April 4, 2009

we cleaned the air idol control(AIC) and no change. the mechanic had idoled it up so it would idol before he cleaned it, after he cleaned the AIC he did not idol it down before he reconected the (-) battery cable. (i know The ignition and timing is controlled by the computer controller. To reset the system disconnect the (-) battery cable for 10 minutes.)would this make any differance? after he cleaned the AIC he could unplug it and no change in the idol of the motor (is this how you can check to see if the AIC is working?)[/B]and if the A/C is turned on it will pull the motor down and it does not idol back up until the compressure cuts back off . i know that before i could turn on the A/C and the motor would idol up on its on.

It runs smoothafter it was idoled up, does not sound like it is missing, but no pulling power.

Could the O2 sensor have anything to do with these problems?

could the computer controler that controls the AIC have anything to do with it.
could the cataledic converter cause any of these problems?

my truck is a 2001 with 15,000 miles.
any sugestions? i have had some good ones, but i need to narrow it down to the part(s) i need to fix this truck. where is a good plase to get parts at good price.

 

thanks for the reply. Do you know how to check the timing on this truck? if the AIC was working wouldn't the motor compensate back to a smooth idol when A/C compressure comes on.