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Sambar ignition help??

Discussion in 'Subaru Sambar' started by Leroy25, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    I’m having a no spark issue with a Subaru sambar. It’s a 93-94 year model KS4 with the clover-4 engine.
    I replaced the coil. No spark.
    I removed the distributor and bench tested the ignition module. No spark. I ordered a new module and bench tested again. It sparked!!!!
    Put distributor back in and no spark again.
    Thought maybe the cap was cracked so I replaced the cap, rotor button, wires and spark plugs. Still no spark!!!??
    I have 12.4 volts at the coil and 12.4 volts at the ignition module.
    Why will it spark on the bench but not in the truck??
    Does anybody have any ideas?
     
  2. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    Could it be a problem with the ignition lock cylinder? I don't have my wiring manual in front of me at the moment.
     
  3. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    I wouldn’t rule it out but I’m turning the engine over by using a jumper wire from the main starter wire to the solenoid wire because I’m troubleshooting by myself from the rear of the truck. I’m only turning the lock cylinder on to get power to the ignition.
     
  4. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    Ok. So tonight I ran a wire directly from the battery positive to the ignition positive to rule out the key switch. Still the same voltage in previously mentioned tests. Still no spark!
     
  5. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    12.4 v is kind of low. It might be good enough to spark on the bench, but drops below 12 when the starter is pulling juice from the battery? Might try it with a jump box or a better battery and see if you get spark.
     
  6. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Well-Known Member

    Possibly your starter is drawing too much and the voltage while cranking is below what is required to spark.

    Fred
     
    Limestone likes this.
  7. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    I had similar issues,(several posts explaining)Wound up, running an extra wire from the start position on the switch, to the on Relay under dash! Not saying you have the same problems, but don't be afraid to do some additional grounding! Good Luck!
    Limestone
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
  8. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    There were a couple of instances where I had my charger hooked to the battery set to 20 amp charge while I had the key on for long periods. I did not take a voltage reading during that time but I’m almost certain it would have been higher than 12.4. I might take the battery from my riding mower and try it in the truck tomorrow. I know it’s less than a year old.
     
  9. Jigs-n-fixtures

    Jigs-n-fixtures Well-Known Member

    Throwing this out just because Ive had it happen: Is the ground wire to the advance plate good? There is a bare braded wire between the body of the distributor, that bonds the advance plate to ground. The wire moves and flexes as the advance plate moves, and can eventually wear and break down. When this happens you end up with 12-volts to the module or points, but without a complete circuit.
     
    Limestone likes this.
  10. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    I was talking about it with a buddy at work yesterday and he mentioned checking grounds. I tested the chassis grounds in the wiring harness as well as the body of the distributor but not the wire you mentioned specifically. I will look into it tonight.
    Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  11. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    I've added extra ground wire's, straps, just because! I know it can't hurt! You can pick up inexpensive grounding straps, amazon, or misc. auto stores. Take the guess work out! Do it! Jig's, brings up a good point often over looked with the ground at the ground plate!
     
  12. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    limestone, you may be on to something. So tonight I removed the distributor and completely disassembled it. I did not find any braided ground wire or any remnants of one inside. Maybe it grounds some other way?
    But.... I happened to have a retired ASE certified mechanic come by to purchase a Craigslist item. Anyway, we briefly looked it over and he determined that I have 12v constant on both poles of the coil. He said the negative side should pulse. He told me there’s a relay that grounds out the distributor once the ignition is on.
    After he left I located the relay and removed it and tested it. ( it actually says coil on it). You can hear and feel it click in my hand. Once I put it in the truck guess what...?? No click!
    I should also mention that I have power on both wires going to the ignition module. Shouldn’t one be a ground?
    Is this related to the relay not activating?
    Where does this relay get power from?
    Also, I’ve checked all the fuses in the panel and they are good.
    Thanks for your help guys.
     
  13. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    Stay grounded my friend!
     
  14. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    I wish I could be of more assistance. I think you are really close, but I don't know enough to walk further down this trail. Do you have a service manual that you can look at a diagram?
     
  15. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    Can you go back a little from your original post? You mention you have a Sambar with a spark issue.. Did it run just fine for weeks and then develop a spark issue? Did it do it suddenly, or start running poorly and then quit? Did you buy it from someone who said it ran fine when they parked it and as far as you know it always had a spark issue? I'm just trying to understand what could be going on..
     
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  16. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    I agree with you, Ohkei! Wondering many of the same things!
     
  17. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    I doubt these are helpful, but here you go. The poor quality isn't from my scanner, the Danko manual is just that blurry and unreadable.
     

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  18. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    No help to me, thanks anyway!
     
  19. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    Sorry for the delay. Got busy.
    A little history on the truck....
    My dad used to sell these by the truckload. When he quit selling them he kept this one and a van( which runs great) for our hunting camp. It wouldn’t start one day so it kinda got pushed to the side and we started using the van more. Some time went by. The battery died. It was sitting in the way. So he asked me to look into getting it going again. So here we are........
    I’ve tested all fuses and relays. I’ve checked what grounds I could find. All good. I am at a loss here. I still don’t understand why there are 12 V on both wires going to the ignition moduleAnd why the coil has constant power on the negative terminal and not pulsing.
     
    Ohkei Dohkei likes this.
  20. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    I wonder if you re- bench tested the module, would it spark again, or did it get fried due to some other electrical gremlin?
     
  21. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    Sure is a posability! One thing about electrical problems is, just when you checked it, check it again! At least from my experience, and from observing others, scratching their heads, and talking to them selves!
    Limestone
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  22. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    Geez I hope not. But the distributor is pretty easy to remove so it may be worth my time to at least try it again to confirm. I’m gonna tinker on it some more this weekend and hopefully have some better luck.
     
  23. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    I’ve pulled the distributor again and re-bench tested. Sparks great on the table. I’m going to bypass all the wiring in the truck and hook it up like i did for the test and see if that changes anything. Will post results.....
     
  24. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    I found the problem!!!!
    So after taking the distributor out half a dozen times I started to notice that the rotor button was always in the same position. I didn’t think much of it because you have to put the cap back on to check for spark. So this last time when I put it back in I left the Cap Off and hit the key in the rotor button does not turn. I pulled the cover off the other side of the engine and the timing belt is broke.
    Moral of the story is...... no spark doesn’t always mean it’s electrical related.
    Who’d a thunk it?
    Well I’m off to order a timing belt. Thanks for all your suggestions.
     
    Limestone likes this.
  25. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    Leroy,
    I'm glad you found it! Yeah, there you go! This is a great example of sticktuitiveness! I knew you'd find it cause your not afraid to jump in and get your hand's dirty! Nice job! Thank's for keeping us posted! Good Luck!
    Limestone
     
  26. Leroy25

    Leroy25 New Member

    But wait! There’s more!!!!
    Once I got the timing cover off I determined the water pump had seized up. The belt was slipping on the pulley and finally gave up. I remember now before the truck was parked it was having an overheating issue. We thought the thermostat was stuck or it had an air pocket in the cooling system. Guess it was the pump all along. I’m just glad I figured it out and can finally stop scratching my head over the wiring.
    Thanks again.
     
  27. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    Ha! I was gonna suggest that to you, but I figured you'd think I was crazy! LOL!!! Which I am!
    Limestone
     
  28. Reese Allen

    Reese Allen Member

    Haha, damn. They always say spark, fuel, air, that's what you have to check. But the next thing on the list that almost nobody ever suggests is TIMING. It's almost never timing but when all else fails...
     
  29. Limestone

    Limestone Well-Known Member

    But in most cases, when a vehicle is running beforehand, then all of a sudden, it won't start, or won't run, you really don't think it's the timing. When I was having trouble with trying to start mine, I did wonder about the timing, to be honest, Reese, but I just couldn't imagine how in the heck the timing could change, while just sitting there! But, if the belt is broke, or slipping, and the crank isn't turning and your not creating spark! It's electric, BOOGIE WOOGIE, WOOGIE, WOOGIE! HAHAHA! I couldn't help it! Sorry! Glad you found it Leroy, and let us know!
    Limestone
     
  30. Ohkei Dohkei

    Ohkei Dohkei Active Member

    And the best part is that since it's a Sambar, it's a non-interference engine! Good job figuring it out.
     

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