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AFCO Spring Install

Discussion in 'Suzuki Carry' started by cmaxxer, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. cmaxxer

    cmaxxer New Member

    I know there's the thread in the general section about installing coil springs, but I figured since this install is specific to the Carry, that I would start a new thread here.

    I purchased a set of AFCO 275# springs from Summit Racing ($44.00 each I think) a while ago, and finally had a chance to install them today on my DB51T Carry.

    I found the easiest for me to release the spring tension was to load the spring using a floor jack (truck placed up on jack stands), taking the nut off from inside the cab using a 3/8" impact, and then lowering the jack slowly to release the stored energy. I then took out the spring by tipping the strut towards the outside of the truck.

    These AFCO springs are for coilovers, so are flat on the bottom, so I matched up the location of the square cut ends on the OEM springs (both ends to ensure equal free height), and then carefully cut them with a zip disk, smoothed the ends over with an abrasive disc in a die grinder, and was ready to go.

    The install was a bit harder than the removal, simply because the strut rod wanted to slide into the strut canister, so I gently clamped through the coils and onto the rod with needle nose vice grips, to hold the shaft. Also keep in mind that the upper strut bearing to strut rod is keyed (by using a large flat area on the threaded section of the rod).....or at least mine are.

    I lined everything up, raised the strut with the floor jack and got it assembled. The second one went even faster. Basically an hour and a half job.....and I gained 2" without any strut spacers.
     

    Attached Files:

    Tony Evers, Cris, Acerguy and 2 others like this.
  2. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Very nice write up. I wish I had done that, but I wasn't thinking and started installing. I didn't cut the spring but I tossed the Idea back and forth a few times in my head. How does it ride? Better, worse same?

    -Greg
     
  3. boatman

    boatman Member

    Yeah - nice write up and pics - thanks!

    So - what greg said. How's the ride? I think I'm getting close to bottoming out mine occasionally (potholes are getting bad here right now). might be a good solution. how much extra travel does the strut have to accommodate this 2" lift? any fear of the strut gettign damaged under tension if the wheel assembly is allowed to go to full extension in a hurry?
     
  4. cmaxxer

    cmaxxer New Member

    I haven't driven the truck yet. I still have to finish the remainder of the front lift, rear lift, and correcting steering geometry (drop the centre link, drop the steering box), confirm that the camber and toe are correct.

    There may be some danger of the strut topping out now, but the suggestion I saw on this site (I think Milt suggested it), was to install a cable on each lower control arm to limit the extension. I think I'm willing to sacrifice these struts just to see.
     
  5. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Let us know. Mine settled a bit after some use, yours probably will too.

    -Greg
     
  6. kepow

    kepow Member

    Please excuse my ignorance just trying to get my head around this
    ...we cant get shocks with enough travel to eliminate topping or bottoming out?
     
  7. cmaxxer

    cmaxxer New Member

    I would say that the simply answer, while using the stock struts,.......is yes.

    With the stock springs, the struts won't top out (most likely, anyways), but don't have enough damping to stop bottoming out.

    With aftermarket springs, the spring rate is high enough to reduce the likelihood of bottoming out, but that same spring rate keeps the piston higher in the strut cylinder (thus the gain in ride height), and increases the chances of topping the strut out.

    I believe the stock struts have about 4 1/2" of travel. What's even more interesting though is the measured gap between the bottom of the frame rail and the jounce bumper on the rear springs. Mine measured out at 1 1/2". That means 1 1/2" of effective travel on the rear of the truck (depending on what the jounce bumper is made of....and I didn't check...I just assumed it was steel by its' appearance). Increasing that spec is my immediate goal. That's why this truck will see a spring over conversion in the next few days, and a short jounce bumper will be installed at that time.
     
  8. kepow

    kepow Member

    Again......excuse my ignorance.......why keep the stock struts? there must be something out there with enough travel to suit our need or.....i guess obviously not..... as there are many people on this forum smarter than I.
    Im very interested because I have my first 7 trucks arriving soon and I will need them all lifted even if its just 2 inches. More lift would suit my redneck needs better .......but not at the expense of the integrity or the reliability of the truck
     
  9. cmaxxer

    cmaxxer New Member

    These struts are not like anything I've seen before (and I worked 15 years as an automotive journeyman). They have a far smaller bolt pattern for the upper bearing mount, and are generally smaller.

    On deeper introspection, I do think that the upper bearing will provide some cushioning on top out. To prove this remove your seats and watch the top of the struts as you jack the truck up by the front diff housing and hang the wheels. The bearing allows the strut to come down on full extension and will most likely save the strut.
     
  10. kepow

    kepow Member

    cant fab a piece to fit between the top part,,,,where the old strut mounted,,,, and a new style strut?
     
  11. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    Don't mean to butt in... but I compared almost every strut at the autoparts store to try to find something and came up with nothing. I measured 5" of travel on my Daihatsu's struts 2 of which was consumed by a bump stop.

    -Greg
     
  12. miniMOG

    miniMOG Member

    Thanks for the great write-up!
     
  13. kepow

    kepow Member

    none of the utv struts are close?
     
  14. Timetripper

    Timetripper Moderator

    Great pics & great write up.
    If you keep this up someone will ask you to be a moderator :rolleyes:
     
  15. cmaxxer

    cmaxxer New Member

    These are the only ones I've seen, but it sounds like these guys don't have the best reputation (no personal experience, though)

    http://www.extreme-machines.net/new_products
     
  16. bigguybigguy

    bigguybigguy New Member

    I just finished installing 2 new springs with old struts as they seemed OK.
    WHAT A difference in ride quality the truck came up 2 1/2" some happy i did it with springs and not spacers as i still in the travel of the strut. I never got AFCO springs but aftermarket ones for $34.00 each from Summit.
    My 2cents worth
     
  17. bigguybigguy

    bigguybigguy New Member

    One thing I forgot to add was when i got the springs at work we have a banding machine for shippinng pallets and used that to compress the spring to about 7" with 2 bands one on each side.
    After installation just cut the bands and pull the parts out after you have the cap nut on the top of the strut .
    Doing it that way it took an hour for the complete job.
     
  18. greg0187

    greg0187 Moderator Staff Member

    What spring rate did you use and what model truck did you put them on?
     
  19. bigguybigguy

    bigguybigguy New Member

    I did it on a Suzuki Carry 1992
    Used a 300 & 275 it rides some lot better
     
  20. bigguybigguy

    bigguybigguy New Member

    I am big so i went with 300 drivers side and 275 on the other as I plan to
    add a snow plow in future.
    most cases 250 or 275 would do just fine.
    Hope this helps.Why the difference as I am bigger than your guy and so the difference.
    Mike
     
  21. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    I think I have maybe possibly sort of settled on installing 225# springs. I weigh 175lb my wife weighs 110. Only a portable winch and front bumper/brush guard and tool chest in bed behind cab. Any comments? Should I use the 250# springs?:confused:
    For those that are looking for 275# springs, try here. Great price--$37.00. By the way, I already contacted them and the 225# and 250# are the usually found $60.00
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0372150428&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT
     
  22. bronco351

    bronco351 New Member

    I put AFCO 250# 10" on my 90 Hijet. They work AWESOME. Probably the best mod I have done. They added 1" lift in the front, so it is a bit high in the front at the moment. :D
     
  23. bigguybigguy

    bigguybigguy New Member

    Aroshots
    I am very happy with what i did and the ride is so much better.
    I think you are on the right track have fun and if you use the band machine for installtion is easy 45min to do both sides.
    My 2cents worth
     
  24. les_jones83

    les_jones83 New Member

    i also installed AFCO springs on my 91 hijet i went with 300lbs and they ride nice a bit stiff but i would rather it be stiff than bottoning out i also have a custom bumper in the works so i went with the stiffer spring
     
  25. lndscpe

    lndscpe New Member

    Spring compressed length?

    As I've been reading the posts here I have been thinking about the spring change also, I went out and measured the current compressed spring length on my 96 Carry, DD51T, and I'm seeing a compressed/installed length of 8"Is this about what your seeing for installed spring height?, is the free/uninstalled length 10" then on the DD51T's? I thought before I make my Carry non moveable and take the spring off to check free length off I'd ask first and get the springs ordered then make the swap. Also I might have missed this but are the spring rates for the DD51T and the DB51T the same? I would think they were but was trying to just get a spring rate slightly stiffer than stock. I would be thankful for you input on the DD51T side. Thanks
     
  26. project_x

    project_x Member

    Dd51t

    YMMV, but the springs I removed from my '93 DD51T were 10". I replaced them with AFCO 275lb 10" springs. This gave me about a 2" lift in the front.
     
  27. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    Indscpe,,,,
    My 1997 Suzi DD51T compressed spring height is 7.5 inches. Uncompressed is 10.25 for the factory spring. I installed the 225#, 10 inch AFCO spring. I am pleased with the outcome:D.
    Photos to follow in my members photo gallery--when I can figure out how to download/upload/crossload or whatever.:frustration:
     
  28. cajun666

    cajun666 New Member

    i just got
    HAL-10-300 - Coil-Over Spring, 300 lbs./in. Rate, 10 in. Length, 2.5 in. Diameter, Silver Powdercoated, Each $75.76

    for my hijet at work so it be 13 days befoer i can install them
     
  29. aeroshots

    aeroshots Member

    Photos of AFCO 225# installed

    I am slow and deliberate when it comes to such things, so this project took longer than it takes most people. I am pleased with the 225 springs. Took it on some woop-de-doos the other day. Great!:)
     

    Attached Files:

  30. o8k

    o8k Member

    If no one minds, i would like to link this thread here to this one:
    Located in Suzuki Carry forum under lifting a carry...
    http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=5960
    and this one, located in the general section...
    http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=1777
    As it turns out, some of these folks are still having trouble w/ camber adjustments and CV binding w/ the spring lift, and this solution is not a silver bullet. If you get an AFCO 300lb/in spring vs a 225 vs a 250 vs a 275, all of these should actually provide "different" amounts of lift. For more on this read post 37 by greg0187 here: http://www.minitrucktalk.com/showthread.php?t=1777&page=3


    I would also like to add a little about IFS lifts (in general, not mini-truck specific, but applicable). There are several ways to lift an IFS (Independent Front Suspension)

    OTT (Over The Top) spacer Lift:
    Description: Pushes the whole strut assy down which creates lift.
    Advantages: Dont have to take the strut assy apart (no spring compressors, nada. Quick, cheap, easy) and accomidates larger tire diameters usually within 10%.
    Disadvantages: Changes geometry risking over extension of the control arm ball joints, pistons, and Axle CVs (if applicable).
    Comments: Very common due to the ease and lack of cost, often, aftermarket venders will sell mega lifts of this type which ruin said vulnerable parts on vehicle. Avoid this lift type for extreem lifting (keep to 1-2" max).

    Spacer lift inside strut assy
    Description Same as above but the spacer is now inside the strut assy. This now pre-tensions the spring (by the number of inches the spacer is) so when you put the vehicle down on its wheels, it rides higher. Example 2" pre-tension w/ 200lb/in spring * two springs is 800lbs, which effectivly makes your vehicle; a) 800lbs lighter :D or b) gives the springs 800lbs of extra down force to hold your vehicle up...
    Advantages Cheap, not quite as easy, little bit more time consuming, keeps geometry much closer to stock. and accomidates larger tire diameters usually within 10%.
    Disadvantages Still puts ball joints, cv angles, piston shaft length items at risk (less than above). Creates a "stiffer" ride than the OTT. Max compression can bind the spring coils alltogether b4 the strut assy bottoms out, makes yucky noise, not good for springs exactly.
    Comments None.

    New Springs Option1 Longer springs, same spring rate:
    New springs Option2 Same length, higher spring rate:

    Description: these are effectivly the same thing, they accomplish the same goal as the spacer shuved inside the spring assy (mentioned above, not the OTT).
    Advantages: More travel than Spacer inside strut assy, spring coils wont bind together under full compression like above. Can accomidate larger tire diameters usually within 10%.
    Disadvantages: More travel puts more risk on geometry risks mentioned above. Aftermarket springs often settle at different rates making your vehicle "shlump" but stock springs can do this as well. again more expensive than the spacer lifts
    Comments; great bang for the buck, my personal favorite way to go.

    Dropping the Diff
    Description: when you must lift beyond what the last three can handle (which is typically only about 2.5 ~ 3" max b4 geometry issues run amuck). All other lifts only change the strut tower/spring assy. However, this lift also drops the differential, control arms, and everything else needed to maintain as close to factory angles for the axle and CV joints as possible.
    Advantages: Virutally illiminates risk to ball joints, shock pistons, cv joint binding etc. Creates the most lift you can get and if you want lift, this is as good as it gets! Accomidates the largest tire diameters possible (usually greater than 10%
    Disadvantages: Cost. Difficult to install. alters vehicle center of gravity beyond its design parameters (creates real danger for your automatic traction control algorithms if your vehicle has any). Can change the angle for your drive shaft U joints and put them at risk (see diagram below) of going pow! Since U joints are not Constant velocity (see "Other Diagram"). Typically this lift accomidates masive tires which weigh more and thus put an overburdon on your vehicle's breaks and stopping distance. Larger tires of this percentage also burdon your axles, differentials etc. And your vehicles effective power and torque are also reduced.

    Diagram:
    [​IMG]

    Other diagram (constant velocity model):
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2009

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