1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Need some troubleshooting minds put together...

Discussion in 'Daihatsu Hi jet' started by cdover73, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    My S83P jut started doing something it has never done before. I can start it and drive as far or as long as I want, but when I get there and kill it it doesn't want to start again. I have to let it set for a while (up to an hour) an then it may fire right up. Other times I have to keep cranking it until it starts stumbling and finally catches up (Ace Ventura car syndrome). Sometimes it is so hard to start that it drains the battery and has to be jumped off.

    It has always been sort of peculiar on starting and I have to hold the throttle to the floor sometimes until it starts. But this acts like it either isn't firing or getting gas. I have checked both and it seems fine though. Maybe it's a vapor lock issue? What would cause that?

    I have checked all the normal: fuel filters and fuel pump - it's getting gas to the carb; spark plugs -could be changed but still has nice blue spark; distributor and wires - all good. I'm thinking it is in the carb.
    How does the wax thingy work exactly? I know there is an element that melts as the engine gets warm. What is the theory on that?

    Can the coil "start" going bad or is it either working or not working? Could it be getting weak when it gets hot?

    What about the fuel shut off solenoid on top of the carb? Can it not work sometimes? Is there a fix in case it ever goes completely out other than finding a new one?

    I also checked for vacuum leaks and didn't find anything with both my vacuum gauge and spraying carb cleaner around the top of the engine.

    The only thing I have not tried, and just thought of while typing this, is valve adjustment. I know my ATV is hard to start when the valves get out of adjustment, and even harder when they get hot. I will check that tonight...

    Like I said, this literally started happening overnight. It runs fine when it does start and never gives any indication of problem. I did get it stuck in mud and had to pull it out, which did something to my clutch cable, but I don't think it caused this problem. I also put high octane "premium" gas in it the last time I filled it up. Is that too much for this engine? I wouldn't think so...idk

    It is a right hand drive and didn't come with the speed limiter, but does have the shut off solenoid screwed into the top of the carb. Two wires coming from it. To me that's what it acts like. Fuel is getting to the carb but maybe the shut off isn't opening and letting the fuel through. I hear a click when I turn the key on though.

    Sorry for the long and rambling post, but any ideas will be appreciated.
     
  2. Tony Evers

    Tony Evers Active Member

    for $20 dollars swap out your coil. There is a post somewhere where there is a comparable part. check your distributor cap and rotor.. This sounds more like a electrical problem than gas. also check for short between key and coil.
    Good luck
     
  3. ttc

    ttc Active Member

    Bad coils usually break down once they get hot.
     
  4. TRAX and HORNS

    TRAX and HORNS Well-Known Member

    After everything you have checked you are right on, setting the valves would be my next guess.
     
  5. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Changed the plugs. Didn't find a replacement coil yet, but that is on my list to do. Haven't had time to check the valve clearance. The distributor is fine. Wires are new. No short per my multi tester. It seems to start faster with the new plugs, but I haven't ran it up to temp yet and tried to restart to see if the problem is still there. I'm still leaning towards the carb and choke system. Can anyone tell me what the wax element does? The one in the carb that melts after it warms up. Also, can the fuel shut off be removed, plugged, modified, bypassed?
     
  6. allen0288

    allen0288 Member

    I had the same problem and replaced every part you listed. Ended up being a small crack in distributor cap.
     
  7. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    That would explain why it seems to be worse when I drive the roads to my food plots after it has been raining. Maybe there is a hairline crack in the distributor letting moisture in. I know of a trick using child's water colors that should show a crack. Just mix a little dry water color powder of contrasting color with some starting fluid or very thin penetrating oil and pour into the cap and swirl around. It is thin enough to seep into the cracks and the color will stay in the crack when u wipe it out. I will try that.
    Thanks for the reply!
     
  8. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Did it to me again today. Had to take the intake tube off the airbox and choke it down to get it to finally start. Got it home and adjusted the valves. They were very tight. Drove around and killed it at different spots and allowed it to sit a few minutes, mimicking what happened earlier, and so far it fires right up every time. I dont even have to hold it to the floor anymore. Im gonna prematurely say that fixed the problem. I will post back if it does it anymore because at that point I will be completely lost.

    Oh, I did buy a new coil and checked the dist cap with the dye test. No cracks and the coil apparently wasnt the problem as it still wouldnt crank today after the new coil was put on. Hopefully the valve job done the trick.
     
  9. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Okay...its still doing it. I took the carb apart today to eliminate the possibility of trash build up. I didn't find anything in it, but after I put it back on I tried to start it with the intake hose off and noticed I had gas pouring out of the throat of the carb. So I'm flooding the engine.

    Question, other than a stuck float or worn needle valve, what would cause gas to run straight through the carb and out of the intake throat with the key turned on and the fuel pump running. I am running an electric fuel pump. Never had this issue before with it. The port beneath the needle valve was clear and the needle sealed off when blowing through the outlet and moving the float up and down, so I know it seals. Why would the gas still be flowing through once the bowl is full??? As soon as I turn the key on and the pump starts running gas immediately starts flowing out of a hole on the intake side of the choke butterfly. Why??? I'm lost now...

    2nd question... what is the best source for a replacement carb? I would rather go that route than continue to deal with working on it every time I want to drive it.

    Thanks,
     
    Bo58 likes this.
  10. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Btw...this is the carb I have.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Does anybody know what aftermarket coil fits as a direct replacement for these trucks? I know there was something on this board but I can't find it using search. It seems like an old Toyota Tercel or something like that had the three prong connector. Does anybody know?

    I just bought this new one, but I damaged it today when I took it off to try to get into a better position to see my timing marks in the front cover. I dropped it and the neck broke off where the coil wire plugs in. I tried salvaging it but not possible. I want to be able to go pick a new one up tomorrow instead of waiting a week for another one to come in, not to mention paying another $100.

    Also, I think I may have burned my starter up today cranking on it. It seems like the more I try the worse it gets! My patience is wearing very thin on this problem. May be a new mini coming for Xmas!
     
  12. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Well-Known Member

    You mention that as soon as you turn the key, the electric pump starts and the gas flows out the throat. This has to indicate that the float bowl is full and the needle valve should shut it off and it is not. Either your pump is too high pressured overpowering the needle valve, the needle valve is not sealing, or the float may be sinking(if brass, could have a hole, if bakelite/plastic material could be absorbing fuel and not floating high enough). Food for thought

    Fred
     
  13. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Yes, I fixed that problem. The needle didn't seat properly when I put it back together. All good now. It still doesn't want to run. I checked the spark after it did run enough to get hot and it was orange and seemed very weak. Not the bright blue you would hope to see. This is after I put the old coil back on after I broke the new coil. So I think I had two things going on. One was the orignal coil was bad. The second, after I put the new coil on the float was sticking so I had the flooding problem. Trying to eliminate too many things at the same time. I think when the new coil comes in and with the fuel issue resolved it should run fine. Fingers crossed...

    Does anybody know the alternative for coil replacement? I am curious now because I spent an hour at Oreilly's the other day trying to find a crossover with no luck. I know there is a 3 prong style that works somewere out there. Spending a hundred bucks each time is ridiculous. Especially when you drop them...
     
  14. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Okay...it is fuel related. I just put the new coil on and tried starting it with the intake tube off so I could watch the carb. As soon as I turned the key gas started flooding out the throat again. I pulled the carb and took the float out and noticed when I hold the float assembly upside down and push up on the float, the needle would go into the hole and seat sometimes but then it would kinda stick other times. Like it is galling on the side of the needle and the metal of the hole from maybe going in at an angle. Then I made a big mistake. For some stupid reason I thought I could just bend the tab on the float a little and make it seal the needle better. I put it back on and at first it didn't run out like before. I cranked the engine and it ran fine, like nothing was ever wrong. So it has the ability to run normal. Then I killed it, let it sit a minute, and tried to start it again. Guess what...fuel running out the carb again. Now I figured I would set the float tab back where it was. Now it doesn't flood again, but there is a steady trickle of gas out the throat. Can the needle be worn just enough it doesn't seal? The rubber tip looks fine, but I know that doesn't mean much. Will a rebuild kit with a new needle fix that? Do they come with preset floats? Can I just go to the parts store and buy a needle valve or is it a specific size?

    How sensitive is the float on these carbs between right and walking? Is there a known setpoint for them so I can at least try to get it close? I see a replacement carb in the near future.
     
  15. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Well-Known Member

    If you can, the best would be a kit with a new needle & seat. A kit will come with a spec sheet with the measurements to set at and you will have all new gaskets & seals. On a Ford I once owned, I found that the float drop was too much and it would occasionally flood out because the needle would come down a tad too far and get a little cocked over and jam wide open. Come to think of it, I also had a Dodge do that too at one time.

    Fred
     
  16. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Yeah I totally agree, but I'm still not convinced it is the needle valve. Even though I also know it HAS to be... I have taken the carb off so many times vacuum lines don't make me nervous anymore! Can do it blind folded now!

    This is where I am...
    I took the float out and bent the tab out as far as possible so it will close the needle sooner. I know it won't run right like this but I wanted to try to see if would seat at all with the extra pressure on the float. I held the float assembly upside down and blew through the fuel inlet with my mouth. It sealed fine under its own weight. I turned it right side up and used my hand to move the float up gently all the way as I blew and it sealed fine. I used my air hose with my regulator turned down to 5 psi and it sealed fine. I checked the gasket very good. I floated the float in a bowl of gas to make sure it floated, and it did. I pulled the jets. I checked everything I could and it seems fine. So I put it all back together and pulled the drain plug from the bowl so I could see the float. I used a screwdriver to gentle move the float up and down to make sure it wasn't binding and it was good. I blew through it while pushing the float up and it sealed fine. Then I put it back on the engine, hooked everything up, and turned the key on so the electric fuel pump could fill the bowl. Fuel gushed out of the overflow hole on the intake throat! Grrrrr...... I tapped the top of the carb and the gushing slowed to a trickle, but still it shouldn't be anything coming out because I JUST proved it sealed!!

    Questions....

    1. Is there any other path internally that would send fuel to the hole in the intake opening in the carb, just in front of the choke blade, that is above and to the right when looking in from the intake end? This opening is about the size of a pencil eraser, maybe a little smaller, and is a passage that leads back to under the float assembly cover. I assume this is the overflow?

    2. There also seems to be some fuel trickling from inside the throat behind the choke blade. Where could that be coming from?

    3. My fuel pump is a 4 psi unit. It has run for two years without this problem. What the heck happened overnight to cause this? There has to be an o-ring that I'm not catching or something. It can't be because it is overpowering the needle because it has run like this for so long.

    4. When you remove the needle valve and look in the hole it came out of is there supposed to be a tapered seat of some sort down in the hole? I noticed there is a small pin hole in the brass passage, but it is flat all around it. Seems like there should be some taper for the needle to seat to. Otherwise it may not be aligning with the hole sometimes. Could I maybe have lost something when I blew air through it? However, even if I did, this problem started before the carb was ever removed. Hmmm....

    Also, please explain the solenoids to me. I know about the auto-choke "wax" element and how it works, but it is non-fuel related. What is the one on top that screws in at an angle and has two wires going to it? And what is the one on the end of the float cover, next to the auto-choke actuator that has one wire? I never have seen a proper explanation of these two solenoids. Could either one be suspect of my problem?

    I will wait for some input to this post, but if I don't have anything certain by Sunday I'm ordering a new carb. I'm not fooling with a rebuild kit because if it don't fix it I might just set a match to it... Is the one from Yokohama Motors the best route to go? I talked to Cajun Mini Trucks and they told me they may can find a good used carb, but I haven't heard back from them. G&R Imports can rebuild my carb, but it takes about a 4 week turnaround. They also have a new carb, but it is a manual choke type and will require too many mods to make it work. Any other suggestions for a good source?
     
  17. Tony Evers

    Tony Evers Active Member

    Your going to be the expert after you figure all this out. It does seem like there should be a seat for your needle. Like any carb I've rebuilt, the needle has always sat on a polypropylene seat to stop fuel flow. Is there no rebuild company that could answer that question for you ? good luck
    Tony
     
  18. Jim Nelson

    Jim Nelson Active Member

    It sounds like you have a carb off a S80 or 81.One solenoid on them and most other trucks is just a fuel shut off that keeps the engine from dieseling when shut off. The other one on the 80 and 81 is the speed limiter that is wired to the speedo cable and closes at 25 mph.
    I've always heard good reports on Yokohama
     
  19. fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila Well-Known Member

    The reason I mentioned a full rebuild kit is that not only will you have a new needle & seat, specifications, new gaskets et all, but that you will also get an exploded view so that you can see if some part is missing or even in the wrong place. Carbs can and have been assembled wrong so many times and apparently you have misplaced something or may even have it assembled wrong. The statement that you hit it and the flow changed indicates that something is not proper. Could be as simple as hitting it changed the position of a gasket ball check & or seal but the exploded view may give some clue.
     
  20. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Thanks for the replies. Its Sunday night and Im still weighing my options of a rebuild kit or complete carb. The only thing with a rebuild is if it doesnt fix the problem, which I know it probably will if I do it right, but if it dont then im out $150 and still have to spend the other 430 for a carb.

    There is a good chance I may have lost something. I do remember removing a push in jet or meter that had an oring at the top. It was slotted on top but didnt screw out. It had to be pulled out. It was crumbled so I replaced it one in my oring kit. However, it was a tight fit to get it to go back in and it spit a portion of the new oring out beside the brass meter. I dont remember where it was though.

    I have the carb back off and im about to go through it piece by piece tonight. If something is obvious then I will get the rebuild kit. But if not, then Yokohama will be getting an order from me tomorrow for the new carb.

    Also, I do need someone to verify the valve adjustment procedure for me. I got it from another post on here for the same model but I want to make sure...
    I pulled #1 plug, the rubber plug off the top of the bellhousing, and the plug from the timing cover. I rotated the engine until TDC. I verified TDC by the marks and a screwdriver in the hole to feel piston stroke. That I am sure of. I adjusted intake and exhaust on #1, exhaust on #2, and intake on #3 all in this TDC position. Then I rotated the engine in the direction it cranks one complete 360 turn and adjusted intake on #2 and exhaust on #3. Is this correct? Something didnt seem right because when i did the 360 spin I noticed all the rockers had slack. Please verify the process. This is critical now that Im thinking back. I know it has nothing to do with the overflowing, but i need to know if I did it correct.

    The thing that still gets me is no matter what I may have done since the carb has been off its doing the same overflow thing it was doing when all this started. It was literally running and cranking fine one day and doing this the next. It HAS to be simple. Thats whats so frustrating. I agree with the statement about being an expert after this is done. I bet I will be able to answer any question anybody has about this carb in the future! And thats not always a good thing...I never really cared to know this much about the dang carb!
     
  21. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Okay, so I took it apart and inspected everything. Nothing obvious. I fixed the oring. It was under the mechanical pump cover on the bottom of the carb. It went into a groove in a brass jet. A little lube goes a long way.

    Then, I did a test with the float and needle valve. I held the assembly in a bowl of water while blowing through the inlet and moving it up and down to see if it would seal. Sometimes it would, sometimes it would not. Either I lost a seat in the cavity of the needle valve or the needle itself is bad. Before when I tested it I was moving the float with my hand so there was no give. This was more real world by letting the float do its own work.

    I am ordering a kit. If this fixes it after all these posts and my hard-headed tail made all this fuss over something this simple I am gonna kick my own a$$!!! I will post up after the rebuild, however long that takes. Hopefully no more than a week or two, depending on availability and shipping.

    Are the kits universal or do I have to make sure its for my model?

    CORRECTION!!!!

    I had to edit this post to update. After I posted all that above I did another test. I took the float bowl cover with the fliat assembly in place and hooked it up to my fuel line. Turned the key on to run the pump and gas started coming out with the float hanging, as it should. Then i used the bowl of water and watched it closely. Every time it stopped the fuel flow with ease. I must have done it 20 times! Up and down...fuel, no fuel... WTH??!!! Im putting it back together and gonna try it. If it runs out the throat again it has to be coming from somewhere else. And I will buy the new carb!!

    Im so sorry for the premature novel up top. Thanks for letting me rant.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
  22. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Arrggghjhh!!!!! #&!*$^!*#&!/

    NEW CARB ON THE WAY FROM YOKOHAMA!!!! IM DONE!!!
     
  23. Tony Evers

    Tony Evers Active Member

    Buddy I feel your pain. I have been known to have fits over these type problems.
     
  24. ttc

    ttc Active Member

    what you doing with your old carb?
     
  25. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Well....first desire is to throw it as far as I can! Then go pick it up and throw it again!! But I will hang on to to it until I know the new one works. I may need to rob a couple parts like linkage and stuff if the new one doesn't come setup exactly like mine.

    However, when I'm riding again I will definitely consider an offer. It won't do me any good to keep it. Maybe you can figure out what's wrong with it. I'm sure a rebuild will fix it, but I'm fed up and not gonna take the chance. I will follow up with you when I get it going.
     
  26. antfarmer

    antfarmer Member

    I'm having a similar problem with my S83P Hijet. I ran it a lot this summer with no problems, then put it away until a few weeks ago. Would not start, seemed like an electrical short, finally figured it was a grounding problem, and added a new ground strap to the motor and cleaned all connections and got it to start perfectly. Drove it a few minutes to where I was cutting firewood, loaded up, then it would not start. After a lot of cranking and several tries, finally it started. The next morning it started fine, I drove it again less than a quarter mile to where I was cutting wood, loaded up, and then tried to start it. Again, could not get it to start.
    Seems fine at the first start of the day. The tank was low so I just got some non-ethanol fuel and will fill the tank and see
    if fresh gas helps, but I'm thinking it might be the carb float or needle valve... haven't had it apart yet.
    When will your new carb arrive? I might try a bit of SeaFoam this week to see if that does anything. When it starts it runs pretty good, just gives me problems a bit later after running.
     
  27. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    That is exactly what mine was doing. I can't even get it to start now. Take your intake tube off the carb and see if fuel is running out of it. I just talked to James Danko at Yokohoma. He said my carb is scheduled to ship next Monday, so I should have it by Wednesday. I told him what mine is doing and that I had checked everything. He told me it sounds like a common problem they run into. There is a metering valve (I think that is what he called it) pressed in to the internal part of the carb that gets plugged over time. He says they have to drill them out to replace them. You can't get them with ordinary tools. If so, I don't feel so bad that I couldn't figure it out...

    I also think I fried my starter, but I have a real good starter guy close by.
    I just did a complete service on it while it is down. Engine oil/filter, air filter, removed gas tank and cleaned, greased drive shafts, changed front and rear end oils, ...basically bumper to bumper service. I just hope the new carb fires her right up!

    If anyone can verify the valve adjustment procedure I mentioned above I would greatly appreciate it. I'm not sure it is correct, but I got it off a post from this site.

    Thanks,
     
  28. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    Got the new carb. Beautiful little unit from Yokohama. Hooked everything up and turned key on to prime the bowl. Gas gushed out the overflow and my heart sank. I tapped the top lightly and it sealed off.

    I bought an inline fuel regulator and pressure gauge and installed it.

    At first I couldn't get it to start. I fixed that as you can read in my other thread about spark issues. So now I sprayed starting fluid into the carb and it fired and ran smooth. But as soon as I stopped spraying it would die. I tapped on the carb some more and pumped the pedal a bunch. Eventually it started.

    I was able to run as long as I patted the gas. It got to where it would idle perfectly but would bog down at WOT. I removed the regulator thinking it was too restrictive and ran a direct hose to the carb. Fuel started pouring out the throat again, just like my old carb was doing!!

    I reinstalled the regulator and turned it all the down but now I have a steady stream of fuel pouring out the carb. Im about to give up!!

    Specifics:

    The fuel pump is rated at 4-6 psi. It is an inline electric steady-pump unit(doesn't shut off when it gets to a certain pressure). I added it when my mechanical pump went out. It has ran perfect for 2 years! Why this all of a sudden? I was hoping the regulator would help, but I dont see any difference no matter what I have it set on. It is a Mr Gasket regulator from 0-6 psi. It has markings and positive lock when you turn the knob. The pressure gauge has never shown higher than 4 psi. What the hell is my problem??!!
     
  29. ttc

    ttc Active Member

    Sounds like to much pressure and it is over coming the float
     
  30. cdover73

    cdover73 Member

    My desire to set it on fire came to a reality yesterday. It backfired through the carb and lit all the gas that had leaked out! LuckilyI was close to my boat and was able to get the extinguisher fast. No damage.

    I will try a gravity line today. That should confirm or eliminate the pump as the problem.

    Im at about three more cuss words away from loading it up and trading it in for a newer one. Damn shame though because this one is set up the way i want it and runs very good when its not having these issues.
     

Share This Page